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This is honestly frustrating to see whenever massive corporations are responsible for creating a deal in which users will be given away data in order to receive

This is honestly frustrating to see whenever massive corporations are responsible for creating a deal in which users will be given away data in order to receive a small compensation. Data, especially personal data should not be a means in which anyone can make any sort of financial compensation from. personal data is stolen every day and used against individuals - and by creating a means in which more people will give you their data, the larger target you have from individuals who are seeking to steal others data.

benj111 7y ago
On the other hand you could sell them pretty useless data for $10. You only need to make one purchase to get the money. In some ways this seems like an error on Amazons part. They are telling people this data is worth $10, when most people think its worthless. How long before enough people cotton on and these companies start having to pay rates that reflect the actual value of the data.
nl 7y ago
Data, especially personal data should not be a means in which anyone can make any sort of financial compensation from. Why? That seems a pretty extreme position.
- kpU8efre7r 7y ago
  Perhaps there should be law that makes is illegal to resell data that you collect. Almost like a first sale doctrine for user data.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    First sale doctrine allows the purchaser to resell their purchase, which is the opposite of what you are suggesting.
    - michaelt 7y ago
      You can resell a copyrighted book, but you can't make copies and sell those. Presumably kpU8efre7r is thinking of something similar - which would obviously make life hard for companies like Equifax.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- kylesellas 7y ago
  Let me clarify - I think massive companies should not have the ability to sell data, i think data has already taken such a massive role on our lives that it is bound to lead to some major incident.
  - sailfast 7y ago
    Thanks for this clarification. My original read on your comment was "an individual should not be able to sell their data" which is clearly well within their rights. I wouldn't do it for $10, but if someone offered me enough to retire on they could probably have it. :)
- electrograv 7y ago
  Yeah, I thought this was a popular idea around here: ”We should have to explicitly opt-in to data collection, and when we do we should be compensated for our data!” Then Amazon actually does it and people are angry? If anything, this is a great move in the right direction for both privacy and fair compensation: It’s opt-in (you’re opted out by default), AND you get monetary compensation! What more could you want? More money? Yeah, but that could actually start to happen if a competitive market of such things grew (though I doubt that will happen so long as it’s legal to collect data without compensation or permission; for that we probably need regulation). Regardless, $10 is far better than the $0 from others who take (and sell) your data without even asking first. IMO the creepy and dangerous privacy violations come from the always-on tracking systems pervasive throughout the web from Google, Facebook, and others. With those, not only are they on by default without your permission, but you can’t opt out, and you receive no compensation!
  - jkaplowitz 7y ago
    Google actually does allow significant opting out, including for Google Analytics. I do have problems with their defaults in many of these areas (in my main Google account I have disabled much of the tracking) and also with how certain features (e.g. Google Assistant) tie more of the functionality than necessary to extra permissions with dark pattern nags to grant them all. But the opt-outs are generally there. (Disclosure: I used to work for Google, but I haven't in over 4 years, and I'm not speaking for them here.)
    - electrograv 7y ago
      You may be right that Google and others technically offer some tracking opt-out capability (mostly because they were required to by GDPR), but it doesn’t seem to work, because I still regularly receive targeted ads (relating to recent web activity): ... Despite having painstakingly turned off every available tracking switch from every service I’ve ever signed up to. ... Despite no longer using any services from Google, Facebook, and many others (except when I must via a link from someone else). ... Despite using privacy oriented browsers with all privacy features turned on. There are so many problems with the current “opt out” model: 1. They do not make it easy to find all these switches. (And it seems intentional, though I can’t prove it.) In addition to there being no global “off” switch, they nest countless switches behind deep hierarchical navigation graphs, where it is extremely difficult for a human to reach every node without missing some. 2. Even when you find the switch, it’s not always clear which choice is the “most off” position, and some switches do not have a “fully off” position. 3. Many switches use extortion to convince you to keep them on: For example, sometimes you’ll be shut entirely out of a service for turning off a tracking switch with dubious explanations as to why they can’t operate the service without it. 4. Many switches will automatically and silently turn back on if you so much as visit the wrong link to their service. Sometimes this happens silently, and sometimes it happens via confusing “dark pattern” prompts. 5. Google isn’t the only one. You have to repeat this whole process for every other service you use (if they even have the switches available). 6. Despite all this, you’ll still be tracked by trackers that don’t need or want you to have an account with them. The last item can perhaps be summed up by the fact that I still get very targeted ads for things I’ve been searching for on DuckDuckGo even despite all these efforts. Clearly trackers are still embedded into various endpoint web pages and are figuring out what I’m doing despite it all. It’s an interesting experiment to try yourself: try to actually not be tracked via a regular or even fairly privacy oriented browser. As far as I can tell, aside from getting into something like Tor, it really can’t be done: If companies can track you, they will. And they can. So they do.
kpU8efre7r 7y ago
Agreed. It's almost like a perfect storm. I feel like many of these issues are worsened by economic conditions in America or poor education. You have people hurting for money who don't realize what they're giving away. Due to this they are vulnerable to being exploited by powerful entities like Amazon. I think this also contributes to a lot of what we see on the web or on mobile. You have multitudes of free apps that suck and sell your data and blast you with ads but they're free. You have multitudes of free online "news" sources that are basically billionaire backed propaganda but they're free. Good sources usually cost money- better to get your news from Facebook. Free wins almost every time. I don't care if people are opting into this, Amazon knows exactly what they're doing. They're benefiting hugely from the uneducated and poor. The thing is I'm not sure there is anything that can be done. It's a symptom of poor education and economic factors.
peteretep 7y ago
I am A-OK with this. I don't want random companies using my data for whatever nefarious purpose they want, silently, without my consent. However, given a price, a user (of the data), and a choice, works for me.
- purduekenny 7y ago
  A one time $10 off of a $50 purchase by the beginning of August and through that application should be such a low price point we laugh at it.
  - peteretep 7y ago
    > should be such a low price point we laugh at it Let the market decide the price

benj111 7y ago

On the other hand you could sell them pretty useless data for $10. You only need to make one purchase to get the money. In some ways this seems like an error on Amazons part. They are telling people this data is worth $10, when most people think its worthless. How long before enough people cotton on and these companies start having to pay rates that reflect the actual value of the data.

nl 7y ago

Data, especially personal data should not be a means in which anyone can make any sort of financial compensation from. Why? That seems a pretty extreme position.

kpU8efre7r 7y ago
Perhaps there should be law that makes is illegal to resell data that you collect. Almost like a first sale doctrine for user data.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  First sale doctrine allows the purchaser to resell their purchase, which is the opposite of what you are suggesting.
  - michaelt 7y ago
    You can resell a copyrighted book, but you can't make copies and sell those. Presumably kpU8efre7r is thinking of something similar - which would obviously make life hard for companies like Equifax.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
kylesellas 7y ago
Let me clarify - I think massive companies should not have the ability to sell data, i think data has already taken such a massive role on our lives that it is bound to lead to some major incident.
- sailfast 7y ago
  Thanks for this clarification. My original read on your comment was "an individual should not be able to sell their data" which is clearly well within their rights. I wouldn't do it for $10, but if someone offered me enough to retire on they could probably have it. :)
electrograv 7y ago
Yeah, I thought this was a popular idea around here: ”We should have to explicitly opt-in to data collection, and when we do we should be compensated for our data!” Then Amazon actually does it and people are angry? If anything, this is a great move in the right direction for both privacy and fair compensation: It’s opt-in (you’re opted out by default), AND you get monetary compensation! What more could you want? More money? Yeah, but that could actually start to happen if a competitive market of such things grew (though I doubt that will happen so long as it’s legal to collect data without compensation or permission; for that we probably need regulation). Regardless, $10 is far better than the $0 from others who take (and sell) your data without even asking first. IMO the creepy and dangerous privacy violations come from the always-on tracking systems pervasive throughout the web from Google, Facebook, and others. With those, not only are they on by default without your permission, but you can’t opt out, and you receive no compensation!
- jkaplowitz 7y ago
  Google actually does allow significant opting out, including for Google Analytics. I do have problems with their defaults in many of these areas (in my main Google account I have disabled much of the tracking) and also with how certain features (e.g. Google Assistant) tie more of the functionality than necessary to extra permissions with dark pattern nags to grant them all. But the opt-outs are generally there. (Disclosure: I used to work for Google, but I haven't in over 4 years, and I'm not speaking for them here.)
  - electrograv 7y ago
    You may be right that Google and others technically offer some tracking opt-out capability (mostly because they were required to by GDPR), but it doesn’t seem to work, because I still regularly receive targeted ads (relating to recent web activity): ... Despite having painstakingly turned off every available tracking switch from every service I’ve ever signed up to. ... Despite no longer using any services from Google, Facebook, and many others (except when I must via a link from someone else). ... Despite using privacy oriented browsers with all privacy features turned on. There are so many problems with the current “opt out” model: 1. They do not make it easy to find all these switches. (And it seems intentional, though I can’t prove it.) In addition to there being no global “off” switch, they nest countless switches behind deep hierarchical navigation graphs, where it is extremely difficult for a human to reach every node without missing some. 2. Even when you find the switch, it’s not always clear which choice is the “most off” position, and some switches do not have a “fully off” position. 3. Many switches use extortion to convince you to keep them on: For example, sometimes you’ll be shut entirely out of a service for turning off a tracking switch with dubious explanations as to why they can’t operate the service without it. 4. Many switches will automatically and silently turn back on if you so much as visit the wrong link to their service. Sometimes this happens silently, and sometimes it happens via confusing “dark pattern” prompts. 5. Google isn’t the only one. You have to repeat this whole process for every other service you use (if they even have the switches available). 6. Despite all this, you’ll still be tracked by trackers that don’t need or want you to have an account with them. The last item can perhaps be summed up by the fact that I still get very targeted ads for things I’ve been searching for on DuckDuckGo even despite all these efforts. Clearly trackers are still embedded into various endpoint web pages and are figuring out what I’m doing despite it all. It’s an interesting experiment to try yourself: try to actually not be tracked via a regular or even fairly privacy oriented browser. As far as I can tell, aside from getting into something like Tor, it really can’t be done: If companies can track you, they will. And they can. So they do.

kpU8efre7r 7y ago

Agreed. It's almost like a perfect storm. I feel like many of these issues are worsened by economic conditions in America or poor education. You have people hurting for money who don't realize what they're giving away. Due to this they are vulnerable to being exploited by powerful entities like Amazon. I think this also contributes to a lot of what we see on the web or on mobile. You have multitudes of free apps that suck and sell your data and blast you with ads but they're free. You have multitudes of free online "news" sources that are basically billionaire backed propaganda but they're free. Good sources usually cost money- better to get your news from Facebook. Free wins almost every time. I don't care if people are opting into this, Amazon knows exactly what they're doing. They're benefiting hugely from the uneducated and poor. The thing is I'm not sure there is anything that can be done. It's a symptom of poor education and economic factors.

peteretep 7y ago

I am A-OK with this. I don't want random companies using my data for whatever nefarious purpose they want, silently, without my consent. However, given a price, a user (of the data), and a choice, works for me.

purduekenny 7y ago
A one time $10 off of a $50 purchase by the beginning of August and through that application should be such a low price point we laugh at it.
- peteretep 7y ago
  > should be such a low price point we laugh at it Let the market decide the price