4 ms·

There are no* neo-nazis from the Ukrainian side, it's a Russian propaganda myth. Since WW2, they've been putting a "neo-nazi" label on anyone who thinks that Uk

by kozak 7y ago

There are no* neo-nazis from the Ukrainian side, it's a Russian propaganda myth. Since WW2, they've been putting a "neo-nazi" label on anyone who thinks that Ukraine shouldn't be a part of Russia. * I mean that ocurrence of neo-nazis is approximately the same as in any normal country. You can never say there are no neo-nazis in any particular group of people, of course.

gbuk2013 7y ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30414955 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30414955
- kozak 7y ago
  Yeah, good example of "post-truth" world. Russia is rich and large and influential enough to influence even BBC. In fact, the ideology that drives the Russian side of the conflict indeed has something to do with nazism, while Ukrainians are just protecting their own country. Ukrainians don't fight on non-Ukrainian soil, while Russians do fight on Ukrainian soil. Today, both president and prime minister of Ukraine are Jewish both by ethnic origin and by religion, by the way.
  - stareatgoats 7y ago
    I sympathize with the tendency to have polarized views when deeply involved in a conflict, especially an armed one. But for the record, this BBC article does not have the common hallmarks of a viewpoint pushed and purchased by the Kremlin, or a post-truth world. On the contrary. For the large part it comes across as balanced and informed IMO, and your sweeping dismissal does not answer the factual issues it raises, particularly the role of the Azov Battalion and the Patriot of Ukraine organisation, "which considers Jews and other minorities "sub-human" and calls for a white, Christian crusade against them, it sports three Nazi symbols". In my opinion, this piece on atlanticcouncil.org sorts out the misconceptions: there is in Ukraine no more support for extreme-right or neo-nazi organizations than other European countries (which however is on an alarmingly upward trajectory). However, "More ominously, Ukraine’s far-right, para-military formations and their penchant for vigilantism remain a problem that must be more vigorously countered by the state and their sources of funding investigated thoroughly." [0] It is really necessary get a grasp of the whole picture. [0] https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-anti-semitism-racism-and-the-far-right https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-a...
    - kozak 7y ago
      The problem with the article is that it's balanced between fake propaganda and truth, which makes it unbalanced relatively to pure truth.
sandino 7y ago
https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2016/08/bandera-statue.jpg https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2016/08/bandera...
- kozak 7y ago
  During WW2, there were two opposing camps in Ukrainian forces: Andriy Melnyk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Atanasovych_Melnyk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Atanasovych_Melnyk) who wanted to cooperate with Germans, and Stepan Bandera who opposed that (and actually spent almost all of WW2 as a concentration camp prisoner). Melnyk was much less popular back then, and today there is no glorification of him either. We honor Bandera who fought against both Nazis and Soviets. Of course, Russian propaganda can't stand the latter part, and tries to defame his memory as much as possible.
  - sandino 7y ago
    Of course this isn't true - Bandera plainly did not oppose cooperation with the Germans - he cooperated with them very enthusiastically, both before and after his arrest. And he did not spend "almost all of WW2" in concentration camps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UNRA_sl.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UNRA_sl.jpg
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

by kozak 7y ago

gbuk2013 7y ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30414955 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30414955

kozak 7y ago
Yeah, good example of "post-truth" world. Russia is rich and large and influential enough to influence even BBC. In fact, the ideology that drives the Russian side of the conflict indeed has something to do with nazism, while Ukrainians are just protecting their own country. Ukrainians don't fight on non-Ukrainian soil, while Russians do fight on Ukrainian soil. Today, both president and prime minister of Ukraine are Jewish both by ethnic origin and by religion, by the way.
- stareatgoats 7y ago
  I sympathize with the tendency to have polarized views when deeply involved in a conflict, especially an armed one. But for the record, this BBC article does not have the common hallmarks of a viewpoint pushed and purchased by the Kremlin, or a post-truth world. On the contrary. For the large part it comes across as balanced and informed IMO, and your sweeping dismissal does not answer the factual issues it raises, particularly the role of the Azov Battalion and the Patriot of Ukraine organisation, "which considers Jews and other minorities "sub-human" and calls for a white, Christian crusade against them, it sports three Nazi symbols". In my opinion, this piece on atlanticcouncil.org sorts out the misconceptions: there is in Ukraine no more support for extreme-right or neo-nazi organizations than other European countries (which however is on an alarmingly upward trajectory). However, "More ominously, Ukraine’s far-right, para-military formations and their penchant for vigilantism remain a problem that must be more vigorously countered by the state and their sources of funding investigated thoroughly." [0] It is really necessary get a grasp of the whole picture. [0] https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-anti-semitism-racism-and-the-far-right https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-a...
  - kozak 7y ago
    The problem with the article is that it's balanced between fake propaganda and truth, which makes it unbalanced relatively to pure truth.

sandino 7y ago

https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2016/08/bandera-statue.jpg https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2016/08/bandera...

kozak 7y ago
During WW2, there were two opposing camps in Ukrainian forces: Andriy Melnyk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Atanasovych_Melnyk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Atanasovych_Melnyk) who wanted to cooperate with Germans, and Stepan Bandera who opposed that (and actually spent almost all of WW2 as a concentration camp prisoner). Melnyk was much less popular back then, and today there is no glorification of him either. We honor Bandera who fought against both Nazis and Soviets. Of course, Russian propaganda can't stand the latter part, and tries to defame his memory as much as possible.
- sandino 7y ago
  Of course this isn't true - Bandera plainly did not oppose cooperation with the Germans - he cooperated with them very enthusiastically, both before and after his arrest. And he did not spend "almost all of WW2" in concentration camps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UNRA_sl.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UNRA_sl.jpg
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]