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> Since Amazon easily hires and retains people at these wages, there very likely isn't anything wrong with these jobs. At least not compared to similar jobs for

by cyphar 7y ago

> Since Amazon easily hires and retains people at these wages, there very likely isn't anything wrong with these jobs. At least not compared to similar jobs for the same segment of the work force. I agree that there are almost certainly many other examples of inhumane treatment of low-wage workers. We should fix those too. If low-wage workers had unions then you would be able to have those kinds of cross-industry group actions. But no, the work conditions at Amazon are not acceptable. And to pretend that this a free market transaction -- and not a case of people who are desperate (and probably being forced to work several jobs and depend on government programs due to inhumanely low wages) being exploited.

dymk 7y ago
$15/hour is “inhumanly low”? Since when? Amazon has been a leader in paying unskilled workers a good salary at huge scale.
- andrepd 7y ago
  It's not just the salary, it's the working conditions.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- cyphar 7y ago
  They only just started paying $15/hour recently, after the whole STOP-BEZOS Act back-and-forth with Bernie Sanders[1]. You appear to be implying they paid a $15/hour minimum wage before October of last year (you can't be a leader in something if you only started doing it 9 months ago because of overwhelming public pressure by politicians) -- they didn't. My point is that low-wage workers are usually not in a position to quit one of their multiple jobs because they might become homeless or lose their health insurance. In fact, Amazon having higher wages means that low-wage workers are more likely to continue working there despite the conditions, because they have nowhere else they could go. But instead of discussing the point I was making, you are cherry-picking one particular phrase I used -- which applies to almost all other low-wage jobs but no longer (as of Oct 2018) applies to Amazon. But also, the working conditions are the thing that most people have issue with (now that Amazon finally pays its workers a minimum wage that is reasonable). Not being able to take bathroom breaks without risking the loss of your job is not a humane way to treat people, even if you're paid $15/hour. [1]: https://www.businessinsider.nl/bernie-sanders-amazon-fight-minimum-wage-raise-stop-bezos-act-win-2018-10/?international=true&r=US https://www.businessinsider.nl/bernie-sanders-amazon-fight-m...
BurningFrog 7y ago
The US unemployment rate is at 3.6%, the lowest in living memory. It has never been easier to find a new job. The number of people working multiple jobs to make ends meet peaked in the 90s, but the legend lives on... That you find blue collar job conditions unacceptable says something about you, not too much about the jobs.
- cyphar 7y ago
  The official US employment figures (U3) have very well known flaws when discussing the status of ordinary workers (they don't count people working part-time or casually that wish to work full-time, nor do they count people who have stopped looking for a job). U6 (which includes those factors and thus is a much better indicator of actual unemployment) is sitting around 8%. More than 70% of Americans live pay-check to pay-check, and 40% cannot afford a $400 out-of-pocket emergency. The rate of people delinquent on their car loans (which is an economic indicator of how ordinary people finances are doing, since car loans are usually the most important credit people have to pay off) is increasing at an alarming rate. Economic problems for US workers didn't end in the 90s.

by cyphar 7y ago

dymk 7y ago

$15/hour is “inhumanly low”? Since when? Amazon has been a leader in paying unskilled workers a good salary at huge scale.

andrepd 7y ago
It's not just the salary, it's the working conditions.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cyphar 7y ago
They only just started paying $15/hour recently, after the whole STOP-BEZOS Act back-and-forth with Bernie Sanders[1]. You appear to be implying they paid a $15/hour minimum wage before October of last year (you can't be a leader in something if you only started doing it 9 months ago because of overwhelming public pressure by politicians) -- they didn't. My point is that low-wage workers are usually not in a position to quit one of their multiple jobs because they might become homeless or lose their health insurance. In fact, Amazon having higher wages means that low-wage workers are more likely to continue working there despite the conditions, because they have nowhere else they could go. But instead of discussing the point I was making, you are cherry-picking one particular phrase I used -- which applies to almost all other low-wage jobs but no longer (as of Oct 2018) applies to Amazon. But also, the working conditions are the thing that most people have issue with (now that Amazon finally pays its workers a minimum wage that is reasonable). Not being able to take bathroom breaks without risking the loss of your job is not a humane way to treat people, even if you're paid $15/hour. [1]: https://www.businessinsider.nl/bernie-sanders-amazon-fight-minimum-wage-raise-stop-bezos-act-win-2018-10/?international=true&r=US https://www.businessinsider.nl/bernie-sanders-amazon-fight-m...

BurningFrog 7y ago

The US unemployment rate is at 3.6%, the lowest in living memory. It has never been easier to find a new job. The number of people working multiple jobs to make ends meet peaked in the 90s, but the legend lives on... That you find blue collar job conditions unacceptable says something about you, not too much about the jobs.

cyphar 7y ago
The official US employment figures (U3) have very well known flaws when discussing the status of ordinary workers (they don't count people working part-time or casually that wish to work full-time, nor do they count people who have stopped looking for a job). U6 (which includes those factors and thus is a much better indicator of actual unemployment) is sitting around 8%. More than 70% of Americans live pay-check to pay-check, and 40% cannot afford a $400 out-of-pocket emergency. The rate of people delinquent on their car loans (which is an economic indicator of how ordinary people finances are doing, since car loans are usually the most important credit people have to pay off) is increasing at an alarming rate. Economic problems for US workers didn't end in the 90s.