3 ms·

> USB-C cables are supposed to be universal I may be wrong here, but from what I understand this doesn't seem to be the case (DP, Thunderbolt, etc. are all "op

> USB-C cables are supposed to be universal I may be wrong here, but from what I understand this doesn't seem to be the case (DP, Thunderbolt, etc. are all "optional"). It would also mean that all cables would be limited to 50cm.

derefr 7y ago
There was the design intent, and then there was the final standard. The USB-IF is composed of manufacturers that wanted to be able to cheap out on cables; so of course they made all the expensive features optional, at the expense of anything USB-C was designed to accomplish. In an alternate world where USB-IF was headed by a benevolent-dictator-for-life, USB-C wouldn't have any optional features. (It'd also be in nearly nothing, because no manufacturer would want to pay the BOM costs of supporting it.)
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > (It'd also be in nearly nothing, because no manufacturer would want to pay the BOM costs of supporting it.) It'd be everywhere if manufacturers had no other choice. Mass production would keep the price low. In that reality, Apple would be actually courageous for switching to USB-C and forcing everyone's hand. The EU could jump in to, and tell phone manufacturers that if they want to switch away from plain old USB, they can switch over to USB-C, but no going back to proprietary connectors bullshit. This would be a much nicer world indeed.
  - johnnycab 7y ago
    >Apple would be actually courageous for switching to USB-C and forcing everyone's hand. Last time Apple was courageous ─ the headphone jack got killed. The word 'courage' was used to onboard Airpods and move the general trend towards sealing off most ingress points on a device; contemporaneously selling an adapter for a pretty penny. Whilst I agree that some manufacturers followed the above-mentioned trend. They were not pushed, but rather jumped willingly, as it made financial and commercial sense by applying the maxim - where Apple leads, others must usually follow. There were also unsubstantiated rumours of Apple abandoning their role in development of USB-C implementation, perhaps due to the lack of a moat[0]. Nevertheless, I don't expect them to be altruistic in their motives and fully expect them to monetise the USB-C standard via a plethora of cables and dongles, possibly under the umbrella of MFi program, especially targeting the lack of certification and/or the vacuum/ambiguity created by USB-IF, leaving the rest of the field to carry on dealing with the existing issues. Also, I would much rather put up with the current botched up state of affairs, than have EU involved in meddling with it and make things even worse. [0] https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/ https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      > Last time Apple was courageous ─ the headphone jack got killed. Hence my use of the word "actually" - the headphone jack situation is IMO anticonsumer, not courageous. As for EU involvement, it seems to have worked out for the best with forcing phone manufacturers to use USB for charging - I still remember the days of feature phones, where we were all drowning in phone chargers and (separate) data cables, as each brand and each model generation within the brand used different ports and voltages. It was ridiculous levels of plastic and electronics waste for the sake of business shenanigans.
      - johnnycab 7y ago
        >As for EU involvement, it seems to have worked out for the best with forcing phone manufacturers to use USB for charging - I still remember the days of feature phones, where we were all drowning in phone chargers and (separate) data cables, as each brand and each model generation within the brand used different ports and voltages. It was ridiculous levels of plastic and electronics waste for the sake of business shenanigans. You are romanticising the notion of Apple and EU being the standard rod-bearers. Despite using electrical waste and dubious business practices as a reason for EU involvement, it would seem that you are unaware of the saga of the 'common charger' and the villainous role played by Apple. A key take-away: The EU's failure to regulate, in essence, provides Apple with an argument to keep their own solution. For Apple, the common charger is a success story – of regulation avoided. https://euobserver.com/news/144538 https://euobserver.com/news/144538

derefr 7y ago

There was the design intent, and then there was the final standard. The USB-IF is composed of manufacturers that wanted to be able to cheap out on cables; so of course they made all the expensive features optional, at the expense of anything USB-C was designed to accomplish. In an alternate world where USB-IF was headed by a benevolent-dictator-for-life, USB-C wouldn't have any optional features. (It'd also be in nearly nothing, because no manufacturer would want to pay the BOM costs of supporting it.)

TeMPOraL 7y ago
> (It'd also be in nearly nothing, because no manufacturer would want to pay the BOM costs of supporting it.) It'd be everywhere if manufacturers had no other choice. Mass production would keep the price low. In that reality, Apple would be actually courageous for switching to USB-C and forcing everyone's hand. The EU could jump in to, and tell phone manufacturers that if they want to switch away from plain old USB, they can switch over to USB-C, but no going back to proprietary connectors bullshit. This would be a much nicer world indeed.
- johnnycab 7y ago
  >Apple would be actually courageous for switching to USB-C and forcing everyone's hand. Last time Apple was courageous ─ the headphone jack got killed. The word 'courage' was used to onboard Airpods and move the general trend towards sealing off most ingress points on a device; contemporaneously selling an adapter for a pretty penny. Whilst I agree that some manufacturers followed the above-mentioned trend. They were not pushed, but rather jumped willingly, as it made financial and commercial sense by applying the maxim - where Apple leads, others must usually follow. There were also unsubstantiated rumours of Apple abandoning their role in development of USB-C implementation, perhaps due to the lack of a moat[0]. Nevertheless, I don't expect them to be altruistic in their motives and fully expect them to monetise the USB-C standard via a plethora of cables and dongles, possibly under the umbrella of MFi program, especially targeting the lack of certification and/or the vacuum/ambiguity created by USB-IF, leaving the rest of the field to carry on dealing with the existing issues. Also, I would much rather put up with the current botched up state of affairs, than have EU involved in meddling with it and make things even worse. [0] https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/ https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > Last time Apple was courageous ─ the headphone jack got killed. Hence my use of the word "actually" - the headphone jack situation is IMO anticonsumer, not courageous. As for EU involvement, it seems to have worked out for the best with forcing phone manufacturers to use USB for charging - I still remember the days of feature phones, where we were all drowning in phone chargers and (separate) data cables, as each brand and each model generation within the brand used different ports and voltages. It was ridiculous levels of plastic and electronics waste for the sake of business shenanigans.
    - johnnycab 7y ago
      >As for EU involvement, it seems to have worked out for the best with forcing phone manufacturers to use USB for charging - I still remember the days of feature phones, where we were all drowning in phone chargers and (separate) data cables, as each brand and each model generation within the brand used different ports and voltages. It was ridiculous levels of plastic and electronics waste for the sake of business shenanigans. You are romanticising the notion of Apple and EU being the standard rod-bearers. Despite using electrical waste and dubious business practices as a reason for EU involvement, it would seem that you are unaware of the saga of the 'common charger' and the villainous role played by Apple. A key take-away: The EU's failure to regulate, in essence, provides Apple with an argument to keep their own solution. For Apple, the common charger is a success story – of regulation avoided. https://euobserver.com/news/144538 https://euobserver.com/news/144538