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Tangentially one thing that I've pondered is the the Amazon Fulfillment Centers are typically on the periphery exurban areas such that they will have the benefi

Tangentially one thing that I've pondered is the the Amazon Fulfillment Centers are typically on the periphery exurban areas such that they will have the benefits of the minimum wage legislation of the urban area but that wage will go a lot farther and they will have a lot shorter commute then if they were located in the urban area itself as a normal retail job would. That seems smart. For instance, $15 an hour goes a lot farther in Tracy and Stockton toward rent or a downpayment than it does in the Mission. Obviously Amazon were to pay more and that would be even better.

fwip 7y ago
Stockton, CA is not subject to San Francisco minimum wage laws.
- filoleg 7y ago
  It doesn't need to be, because Amazon has increased their minimum pay everywhere across the US to $15/hr last year.[0] 0. https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-amazon-raising-minimum-wage-20181002-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-amazon-raising-mi...
bobthepanda 7y ago
Poor people generally don't live in suburban or exurban areas. And if they can't afford decent transportation then they will either face very long commutes or move and be stranded with whatever jobs are in the periphery exurban area.
- somethoughts 7y ago
  Previously yes, since a high number of retail jobs (i.e. stacking shelves, sorting inventory, etc.) were all done in the core part of the urban area (i.e. think Target or BestBuy directly in the downtown area). With Amazon Fulfillment, the "retail-like" jobs (sorting inventory) can be done where the employee actually can relocate to the periphery and have a traffic free commute. And delivery drivers will be returning the fufillment center so will naturally be returning to the periphery at the end of their shifts.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    This results in several net negatives for workers though: - Housing in exurban areas is not necessarily cheap. And moving has a nonzero cost. People may not be able to move to the exurbs in the first place. - Downtown is where services are. Generally speaking, suburban support for low-income people is often lacking. And kids have to switch schools, people lose their existing community support networks, etc. - Because downtown has so much employment, it's relatively easy to switch between jobs. Don't like your retail job? You can switch to another retailer, or a restaurant, or any other type of low income job. In these exurban areas, how much employer diversity is there? Is it easy to get to other employers? This mostly seems like it would just create company slums.
    - somethoughts 7y ago
      On the first, you're looking at $1500 in rent or $350K to purchase for a one bedroom in Tracy versus $3500 in rent or $1M to purchase for a one bedroom in SF. Fair point on the second one, some sacrifices will need to be made. At some point though - downtown won't be able to support everyone living in a 1800 square foot home and trying to get to work no matter what zoning. I think the last one is the strongest - they are stuck if there are no alternative employment options.
- rayiner 7y ago
  Three fun facts. One, most poor people live in the suburbs. In Atlanta, for example, the figure is 88%. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/01/suburbs-and-the-new-american-poverty/384259 https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/01/suburbs.... Two, 80% of people living in poverty have access to a vehicle: https://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructure/gov-car-ownership-poverty.html https://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructu.... Three, in post WWII cities, almost all jobs are in suburban and exurban areas. In Atlanta, more than 75% of jobs are outside the city itself (many parts of which are pretty suburban to begin with). 80% of all job growth is outside the city. So yes, $15/hour employment in exurban areas is actually good for poor people.

fwip 7y ago

Stockton, CA is not subject to San Francisco minimum wage laws.

filoleg 7y ago
It doesn't need to be, because Amazon has increased their minimum pay everywhere across the US to $15/hr last year.[0] 0. https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-amazon-raising-minimum-wage-20181002-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-amazon-raising-mi...

bobthepanda 7y ago

Poor people generally don't live in suburban or exurban areas. And if they can't afford decent transportation then they will either face very long commutes or move and be stranded with whatever jobs are in the periphery exurban area.

somethoughts 7y ago
Previously yes, since a high number of retail jobs (i.e. stacking shelves, sorting inventory, etc.) were all done in the core part of the urban area (i.e. think Target or BestBuy directly in the downtown area). With Amazon Fulfillment, the "retail-like" jobs (sorting inventory) can be done where the employee actually can relocate to the periphery and have a traffic free commute. And delivery drivers will be returning the fufillment center so will naturally be returning to the periphery at the end of their shifts.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  This results in several net negatives for workers though: - Housing in exurban areas is not necessarily cheap. And moving has a nonzero cost. People may not be able to move to the exurbs in the first place. - Downtown is where services are. Generally speaking, suburban support for low-income people is often lacking. And kids have to switch schools, people lose their existing community support networks, etc. - Because downtown has so much employment, it's relatively easy to switch between jobs. Don't like your retail job? You can switch to another retailer, or a restaurant, or any other type of low income job. In these exurban areas, how much employer diversity is there? Is it easy to get to other employers? This mostly seems like it would just create company slums.
  - somethoughts 7y ago
    On the first, you're looking at $1500 in rent or $350K to purchase for a one bedroom in Tracy versus $3500 in rent or $1M to purchase for a one bedroom in SF. Fair point on the second one, some sacrifices will need to be made. At some point though - downtown won't be able to support everyone living in a 1800 square foot home and trying to get to work no matter what zoning. I think the last one is the strongest - they are stuck if there are no alternative employment options.
rayiner 7y ago
Three fun facts. One, most poor people live in the suburbs. In Atlanta, for example, the figure is 88%. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/01/suburbs-and-the-new-american-poverty/384259 https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/01/suburbs.... Two, 80% of people living in poverty have access to a vehicle: https://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructure/gov-car-ownership-poverty.html https://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructu.... Three, in post WWII cities, almost all jobs are in suburban and exurban areas. In Atlanta, more than 75% of jobs are outside the city itself (many parts of which are pretty suburban to begin with). 80% of all job growth is outside the city. So yes, $15/hour employment in exurban areas is actually good for poor people.