3 ms·

I'd argue six months is about average for the jobs I've seen and had over the years. Not every role needs an off-the-shelf front end dev. A lot of things real

by jofer 7y ago

I'd argue six months is about average for the jobs I've seen and had over the years. Not every role needs an off-the-shelf front end dev. A lot of things really do require significant domain and industry specific knowledge. For those roles, it takes a very long time to turn up even one minimally qualified candidate. It's easy to say "find someone bright who can learn on the job", but that's not practical in the cases I've seen. Many things need either specialized education or experience in a similar role to be effective within a 2-3 year timeframe. When on-the-job training would take multiple years, it's worth spending six months to a year to find someone who can fill the role. At least in the industries I've worked in, the roles that require extensive and rare training/experience outnumber the roles that don't.

ryandrake 7y ago
If you take six weeks to hire someone (let alone six MONTHS!) then you’re probably missing out on candidates who have other good, quicker options. I remember doing a phone screen with a major telco whose name starts with A, ends with T and has a T in the middle. It seemed to go well, then silence (as often happens with tech interviews). Well I did a few interviews at other companies, picked one, signed everything, moved my family across the country, and started work there. About 9 weeks after that phone screen, they finally got back to me with: “We thought the initial interview went great! How about coming onsite for the next step?” LOL
- jotux 7y ago
  Our hiring process doesn't take 6 months -- we're only able to find a candidate, interview them, negotiate, and have them accept an offer every 6 months. Our biggest problem is just finding people to apply. In the last ~8 years I count only about 100 total applicants to our jobs (I'm not counting internship job listings where we got a lot of student applicants). We tried posting jobs on HN Who's Hiring for about 6 months and got zero serious candidates, so we stopped.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 7y ago
    Out of curiosity, do you put a competitive salary range on your posts? I suspect that if you put a range that is above the median for your locale you might have more bites. Only other reason I can think is if your technology stack is outdated or you are located in an area where no one wants to live.
unleashit 7y ago
What's your definition of an "off the shelf" front end dev? And if you want to pigeon hole just front end developers (I meant industry wide), what is it you think can possibly be so special about the UIs of over half of everything that someone with many years of experience (possibly from a variety of industries) can't come in and quickly be effective? Isn't there value of someone who can handle new challenges over someone siloed into a single area? I would say your comment come across as elitist and the evidence I have is also my personal experience. I've done it many times and rarely has anyone not been happy with the results thus far. Obviously there are industry specific areas of expertise that can be deep, and I can see where there are times you might have to hold out for the right candidate. But I think the figures you give reflect stem much more from personal bias than reality. Sadly, a lot of HR agrees with you which is why it's it's become needlessly hard to hire/find a job these days.
- jofer 7y ago
  My apologies, I should have left "front end" out entirely. Front end has nothing to do with it, I was just using it as an example of a role that is frequently somewhat standardized, interchangeable, and often does not require knowledge of an additional domain. My point was that many other roles do require expertise in multiple domains as well as industry specific experience. These jobs are relatively hard to fill. They're also quite common outside of consumer tech companies, in my experience. I apologize if this seems elitist, but some things simply cannot be picked up in a few weeks on the job. Those jobs tend to have a lower supply of qualified candidates and take longer to fill.

by jofer 7y ago

ryandrake 7y ago

If you take six weeks to hire someone (let alone six MONTHS!) then you’re probably missing out on candidates who have other good, quicker options. I remember doing a phone screen with a major telco whose name starts with A, ends with T and has a T in the middle. It seemed to go well, then silence (as often happens with tech interviews). Well I did a few interviews at other companies, picked one, signed everything, moved my family across the country, and started work there. About 9 weeks after that phone screen, they finally got back to me with: “We thought the initial interview went great! How about coming onsite for the next step?” LOL

jotux 7y ago
Our hiring process doesn't take 6 months -- we're only able to find a candidate, interview them, negotiate, and have them accept an offer every 6 months. Our biggest problem is just finding people to apply. In the last ~8 years I count only about 100 total applicants to our jobs (I'm not counting internship job listings where we got a lot of student applicants). We tried posting jobs on HN Who's Hiring for about 6 months and got zero serious candidates, so we stopped.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 7y ago
  Out of curiosity, do you put a competitive salary range on your posts? I suspect that if you put a range that is above the median for your locale you might have more bites. Only other reason I can think is if your technology stack is outdated or you are located in an area where no one wants to live.

unleashit 7y ago

What's your definition of an "off the shelf" front end dev? And if you want to pigeon hole just front end developers (I meant industry wide), what is it you think can possibly be so special about the UIs of over half of everything that someone with many years of experience (possibly from a variety of industries) can't come in and quickly be effective? Isn't there value of someone who can handle new challenges over someone siloed into a single area? I would say your comment come across as elitist and the evidence I have is also my personal experience. I've done it many times and rarely has anyone not been happy with the results thus far. Obviously there are industry specific areas of expertise that can be deep, and I can see where there are times you might have to hold out for the right candidate. But I think the figures you give reflect stem much more from personal bias than reality. Sadly, a lot of HR agrees with you which is why it's it's become needlessly hard to hire/find a job these days.

jofer 7y ago
My apologies, I should have left "front end" out entirely. Front end has nothing to do with it, I was just using it as an example of a role that is frequently somewhat standardized, interchangeable, and often does not require knowledge of an additional domain. My point was that many other roles do require expertise in multiple domains as well as industry specific experience. These jobs are relatively hard to fill. They're also quite common outside of consumer tech companies, in my experience. I apologize if this seems elitist, but some things simply cannot be picked up in a few weeks on the job. Those jobs tend to have a lower supply of qualified candidates and take longer to fill.