6 ms·

Mobile free to play games now make up the majority of money made in video games today. It's strange then that most of these games aren't that interesting. Who

Mobile free to play games now make up the majority of money made in video games today. It's strange then that most of these games aren't that interesting. Who are the players of these that make up the new class of gamers? It would seem that the payers are the exploitable - those able to be swindled with casino mechanisms. As an ex- free-to-play game developer and one who believes regulation often does more harm to consumers than good, I'd like to see something done. I'm just at a loss for what would work.

LanceH 7y ago
How about the app stores classifying them? I've tried looking for games I could buy outright. Try finding a game without ads or in app purchases. It is extremely difficult to search by those criteria.
- codebje 7y ago
  I've been trying to find such games for my kids (4 & 6) - there really are no search options to help. Indiscriminate third party advertising and freemium games are going to cause significant long-term harm to mobile gaming, and possibly also to society as a whole. There's still some games out there that use IAP in small doses (<10 total) to sell reasonably sized chunks of content, but they don't make the money that freemium games do. (My own device operates on the same rules as my kids - no third party advertising, no freemium IAP stuff. There's really nothing to miss in that space anyway…)
- lozenge 7y ago
  Try searching the internet instead of those storefronts, you'll get more than enough listicles.
- ajscanlan 7y ago
  Not sure about iOS but on the Play Store you can look in the "Premium" section in Games. Not all are IAP free, but it seems most of them are.
maze-le 7y ago
I almost fell into such a trap before. I knew about the mechanics, but I was willing to give the developers the benefit of a doubt. And so I started playing, and after a while started to acquire shortcuts with money. Once, twice and at the verge of the third time, I realized what I was doing and stopped immediately. The money you use is never much, but that is just part of the design to make you throw out even more -- a few cents here a few cents there and suddenly a sizable amount builds up. Now I am 33 and have a bit of experience with addiction. That helps identifying these traps -- Dopamine kicks are always the same, chemically induced or by stimulating your brain with rewarding gameplay. But to be sure, would I have been born 20 years later, I would definitely be hooked on that particular game and still throwing money out for -- not much but a faster reward-cycle.
- nabergh 7y ago
  > I would definitely be hooked on that particular game and still throwing money out for -- not much but a faster reward-cycle. Do you think that's an inherently bad thing? Maybe it was for you at the time but I feel like the ability to reliably turn money into entertainment (in this case "a faster reward-cycle") is a great thing to have available to people who already have their basic needs met.
  - maze-le 7y ago
    No, not necessarily. It depends on each individual and the circumstances they are in. Its like with drugs, if you have a healthy social circle, a relationship / family you care about and a stable and productive work-environment, it will be a lot harder to get you addicted to the rewards of micro-transactions. >> I feel like the ability to reliably turn money into entertainment (...) is a great thing to have Yes, definitely. Each and every person can use (or learn to use) these games responsibly -- Not only games -- books, videos you name it -- like most people here I have a steam account, amazon prime, audible and a few other amenities where I wouldn't use my money in a compulsory manner. But a lot of free-to-play games have these little tweaks, that make it so very easy to spend money and don't even think twice about it. The occasional invite to start a transaction, placed at strategic "blockers" where you'll otherwise have to wait for 24h to advance can already be enough. The crucial thing is to know about these mechanisms and have some sense of introspection into ones own behavior -- these skills can be learned. EDIT: After I read some of the other responses and thought about it -- it is also important for us all, to acknowledge that some of these mechanisms do work like drugs -- neurochmically. And like with drugs prohibitions are counterproductive -- but a good effort in regulation might be a good step forward -- I've read very good examples in the other parts of this thread regarding a step like this.
patorjk 7y ago
> It's strange then that most of these games aren't that interesting. Who are the players of these that make up the new class of gamers? It's just one data point, but my mother-in-law, who's in her late 60's, plays a lot of free games. She did an audit of her spending last year and discovered she'd spent over $500 in Candy Crush (I think that was the game). She complained to them and they gave her a partial refund, though to my knowledge she continues to play the game. I would bet a lot of these players are less tech savvy older folks.
- BlueGh0st 7y ago
  What exactly does one complain about? If I complain to a movie theatre for all the money I've spent on tickets, they're just going to say "Um, okay..?"
  - AlexandrB 7y ago
    This is a silly comparison. A movie theatre is an exchange of money for a one time service. Something most people understand. F2P gaming is something a lot more insidious. Like if the movie theatre was trying to nickle-and-dime you for a dollar or two throughout the day.
blackhaz 7y ago
How about a state regulation prohibiting stores to sell anything with real money procurement and trading mechanisms inside as games? Anything that allows in-app purchases or trade should be re-classified, a "trading platform," perhaps or, indeed, a casino? But then it would be up to society whether to allow their kids to play in a casino, or draw in a trading platform - where brushes have to be purchased. Squeeze those app business men a little bit. If Candy Crush allows to purchase in-game items, it's a freaking trading platform.
- sidlls 7y ago
  Most of these apps exist because consumers expect them to be free and refuse to pay even a little bit up front. This "freemium casino" model of monetizing games and other apps arose out of the feedback loop that started with cheap consumer driven development. The consumer is not always right....
  - codebje 7y ago
    There's an interesting duality in that. Companies are choosing to maximise profits by tapping into addiction and gambling, and consumers are choosing to accept and reward that. I don't agree though that there's only up-front payment or freemium options on the table, nor do I agree that consumers wouldn't accept up-front payment if that was really on the table. Consumers paid up front for games on the Gameboy and other handheld devices, and they paid enough to keep that industry alive right up until mobile games took over. Any expectations consumers have right now that mobile games should be free is on the publishers, not the consumers - and while consumers are enabling and supporting the freemium casino model, I don't think that us humans in aggregate have as much freedom of choice as we like to believe. Regulation is the only way out of this bind, but with the continued rise of neoliberalism that's just not going to happen.
    - plankers 7y ago
      Is the consumer expectation that mobile games be free on the publishers if they're responding to market conditions created by those same consumer expectations? Seems to me like a chicken and egg problem where the entrenched nature of freemium games create a consumer expectation that games should be free up-front, causing consumers to avoid up-front payment, which causes up-front payment models to be less successful, which further entrenches the freemium game model, etc. I agree with you on principle that it's up to publishers to make the effort to change this model, but I don't see how that could happen without some external nudging to overcome the market forces at work.
Rch_East 7y ago
Start with why Nintendo games are non-exploitative: no microtransactions, and a single retail purchase. Regulate children's games such that they must have a minimum price (eg. $4.99) and contain no microtransactions. The same could be done with pornography: require $4.99/month as the minimum charge, paid via credit card, to access, and DNS ban all sites which do not acquiesce.
- AlexandrB 7y ago
  > Start with why Nintendo games are non-exploitative: no microtransactions, and a single retail purchase. On mobile this isn’t true. I worry that now that Nintendo has gotten a taste of the F2P riches via Fire Emblem Heroes these ideas will seep into other parts of the business.
watwut 7y ago
> It's strange then that most of these games aren't that interesting. Most dont earn money. It is winner takes all market. > Who are the players of these that make up the new class of gamers? I am. A while ago I ditched "traditional" games entirely and are not coming back, ever. I played only mobile games after. Through it is less so now, I did not ditched them and are willing to continue playing them (unlike traditional that I have decided to not play again).
beatgammit 7y ago
I am interested in making games, and looking at market data, either you can build a good game and pray you get lucky, or you can make a much easier game and build in pay to win and hope you get lucky. It's much easier to make a pay to win game, so I could try a few times more than by trying to make a good game off the bat. People just don't like to pay money up front, so getting them to start for free and then adding in the paid features to skip past your intentional delays is a pretty strong tactic to get people to pay when they otherwise wouldn't. I just refuse to do it because I find it unethical.

LanceH 7y ago

How about the app stores classifying them? I've tried looking for games I could buy outright. Try finding a game without ads or in app purchases. It is extremely difficult to search by those criteria.

codebje 7y ago
I've been trying to find such games for my kids (4 & 6) - there really are no search options to help. Indiscriminate third party advertising and freemium games are going to cause significant long-term harm to mobile gaming, and possibly also to society as a whole. There's still some games out there that use IAP in small doses (<10 total) to sell reasonably sized chunks of content, but they don't make the money that freemium games do. (My own device operates on the same rules as my kids - no third party advertising, no freemium IAP stuff. There's really nothing to miss in that space anyway…)
lozenge 7y ago
Try searching the internet instead of those storefronts, you'll get more than enough listicles.
ajscanlan 7y ago
Not sure about iOS but on the Play Store you can look in the "Premium" section in Games. Not all are IAP free, but it seems most of them are.

maze-le 7y ago

I almost fell into such a trap before. I knew about the mechanics, but I was willing to give the developers the benefit of a doubt. And so I started playing, and after a while started to acquire shortcuts with money. Once, twice and at the verge of the third time, I realized what I was doing and stopped immediately. The money you use is never much, but that is just part of the design to make you throw out even more -- a few cents here a few cents there and suddenly a sizable amount builds up. Now I am 33 and have a bit of experience with addiction. That helps identifying these traps -- Dopamine kicks are always the same, chemically induced or by stimulating your brain with rewarding gameplay. But to be sure, would I have been born 20 years later, I would definitely be hooked on that particular game and still throwing money out for -- not much but a faster reward-cycle.

nabergh 7y ago
> I would definitely be hooked on that particular game and still throwing money out for -- not much but a faster reward-cycle. Do you think that's an inherently bad thing? Maybe it was for you at the time but I feel like the ability to reliably turn money into entertainment (in this case "a faster reward-cycle") is a great thing to have available to people who already have their basic needs met.
- maze-le 7y ago
  No, not necessarily. It depends on each individual and the circumstances they are in. Its like with drugs, if you have a healthy social circle, a relationship / family you care about and a stable and productive work-environment, it will be a lot harder to get you addicted to the rewards of micro-transactions. >> I feel like the ability to reliably turn money into entertainment (...) is a great thing to have Yes, definitely. Each and every person can use (or learn to use) these games responsibly -- Not only games -- books, videos you name it -- like most people here I have a steam account, amazon prime, audible and a few other amenities where I wouldn't use my money in a compulsory manner. But a lot of free-to-play games have these little tweaks, that make it so very easy to spend money and don't even think twice about it. The occasional invite to start a transaction, placed at strategic "blockers" where you'll otherwise have to wait for 24h to advance can already be enough. The crucial thing is to know about these mechanisms and have some sense of introspection into ones own behavior -- these skills can be learned. EDIT: After I read some of the other responses and thought about it -- it is also important for us all, to acknowledge that some of these mechanisms do work like drugs -- neurochmically. And like with drugs prohibitions are counterproductive -- but a good effort in regulation might be a good step forward -- I've read very good examples in the other parts of this thread regarding a step like this.

patorjk 7y ago

> It's strange then that most of these games aren't that interesting. Who are the players of these that make up the new class of gamers? It's just one data point, but my mother-in-law, who's in her late 60's, plays a lot of free games. She did an audit of her spending last year and discovered she'd spent over $500 in Candy Crush (I think that was the game). She complained to them and they gave her a partial refund, though to my knowledge she continues to play the game. I would bet a lot of these players are less tech savvy older folks.

BlueGh0st 7y ago
What exactly does one complain about? If I complain to a movie theatre for all the money I've spent on tickets, they're just going to say "Um, okay..?"
- AlexandrB 7y ago
  This is a silly comparison. A movie theatre is an exchange of money for a one time service. Something most people understand. F2P gaming is something a lot more insidious. Like if the movie theatre was trying to nickle-and-dime you for a dollar or two throughout the day.

blackhaz 7y ago

How about a state regulation prohibiting stores to sell anything with real money procurement and trading mechanisms inside as games? Anything that allows in-app purchases or trade should be re-classified, a "trading platform," perhaps or, indeed, a casino? But then it would be up to society whether to allow their kids to play in a casino, or draw in a trading platform - where brushes have to be purchased. Squeeze those app business men a little bit. If Candy Crush allows to purchase in-game items, it's a freaking trading platform.

sidlls 7y ago
Most of these apps exist because consumers expect them to be free and refuse to pay even a little bit up front. This "freemium casino" model of monetizing games and other apps arose out of the feedback loop that started with cheap consumer driven development. The consumer is not always right....
- codebje 7y ago
  There's an interesting duality in that. Companies are choosing to maximise profits by tapping into addiction and gambling, and consumers are choosing to accept and reward that. I don't agree though that there's only up-front payment or freemium options on the table, nor do I agree that consumers wouldn't accept up-front payment if that was really on the table. Consumers paid up front for games on the Gameboy and other handheld devices, and they paid enough to keep that industry alive right up until mobile games took over. Any expectations consumers have right now that mobile games should be free is on the publishers, not the consumers - and while consumers are enabling and supporting the freemium casino model, I don't think that us humans in aggregate have as much freedom of choice as we like to believe. Regulation is the only way out of this bind, but with the continued rise of neoliberalism that's just not going to happen.
  - plankers 7y ago
    Is the consumer expectation that mobile games be free on the publishers if they're responding to market conditions created by those same consumer expectations? Seems to me like a chicken and egg problem where the entrenched nature of freemium games create a consumer expectation that games should be free up-front, causing consumers to avoid up-front payment, which causes up-front payment models to be less successful, which further entrenches the freemium game model, etc. I agree with you on principle that it's up to publishers to make the effort to change this model, but I don't see how that could happen without some external nudging to overcome the market forces at work.

Rch_East 7y ago

Start with why Nintendo games are non-exploitative: no microtransactions, and a single retail purchase. Regulate children's games such that they must have a minimum price (eg. $4.99) and contain no microtransactions. The same could be done with pornography: require $4.99/month as the minimum charge, paid via credit card, to access, and DNS ban all sites which do not acquiesce.

AlexandrB 7y ago
> Start with why Nintendo games are non-exploitative: no microtransactions, and a single retail purchase. On mobile this isn’t true. I worry that now that Nintendo has gotten a taste of the F2P riches via Fire Emblem Heroes these ideas will seep into other parts of the business.

watwut 7y ago

> It's strange then that most of these games aren't that interesting. Most dont earn money. It is winner takes all market. > Who are the players of these that make up the new class of gamers? I am. A while ago I ditched "traditional" games entirely and are not coming back, ever. I played only mobile games after. Through it is less so now, I did not ditched them and are willing to continue playing them (unlike traditional that I have decided to not play again).

beatgammit 7y ago

I am interested in making games, and looking at market data, either you can build a good game and pray you get lucky, or you can make a much easier game and build in pay to win and hope you get lucky. It's much easier to make a pay to win game, so I could try a few times more than by trying to make a good game off the bat. People just don't like to pay money up front, so getting them to start for free and then adding in the paid features to skip past your intentional delays is a pretty strong tactic to get people to pay when they otherwise wouldn't. I just refuse to do it because I find it unethical.