5 ms·

Another one of those oversensationalized outrage articles that can be boiled down to "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I

Another one of those oversensationalized outrage articles that can be boiled down to "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I will blame someone else for it and make it their responsibility." There is literally a setting on iOS for that specific specific scenario, which allows to prevent in-app purchases[0]. And it is very easy and intuitive to set up too, so it isn't like it is hidden behind millions of menus and dark patterns. 0. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204396 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204396

sjg007 7y ago
In-app purchases should be off by default.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  They are unless you add a card, and sign in, and enable the ability to pay without using your password.
  - shakyshakyshaky 7y ago
    most children are using their parents' apple IDs.
    - filoleg 7y ago
      So you are admitting that the default users of those phones are adults. In which case, it makes sense that the defaults are set for adults. If an adult is handing their phone (with a credit card enabled on it) to their child, it is expected that they should think of things that can go wrong and disable in-app purchases. If a parent cannot even attempt to keep an eye on what their child is doing on their phone OR click a simple menu setting that disables in-app purchases, I would personally worry about their child way beyond what they can do on their phone.
willk 7y ago
These games were not just on Apple's platform. I think these types of games are predatory. What is wrong with just selling a whole game? It is hard to find any game these days that comes out complete. Blizzard did it with Star Craft 2 and for that reason, I refused to buy it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  There are plenty of games you can buy on the iOS store. What's wrong with buying a whole game?
  - falcolas 7y ago
    Even "whole" games (like the latest $60 FIFA release) have unlimited microtransactions. And it's not limited to iOS, or Android. It's on most internet connected platforms.
- filoleg 7y ago
  I agree with your point about non-apple platforms. I cannot enumerate all of them, but it would be silly of me to expect all of them to handle that scenario gracefully, and I believe they should be required to. However, Starcraft 2 is complete and been this way since the inception. They added microtransactions years after the full release, and they all boil down to cosmetics and other completely optional and non-necessary things, like skins and banners, i.e. cosmetics. Something for hardcore fans to buy in order to support their game, but absolutely non-essential for the actual full experience. And I am saying that as someone who hasn't spent a single dime on Starcraft 2, aside from buying the full game on release (+the expansions that came out years later) and putting hundreds of hours into it.
  - Kiro 7y ago
    They mean the fact that the game came out in instalments, which is a ridiculous complaint and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
ajross 7y ago
> "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I will blame someone else for it and make it their responsibility." For centuries, it's been trivially possible for parents to manage their children's access to funds. Nineteenth century homesteaders could send their kids off to market with appropriate funds to buy what they needed. Now all of a sudden this doesn't work and kids by default have access to near infinite (at their scales) lines of credit because of internet purchasing. Why is this burden suddenly on the parents? Why can't app vendors (and in particular their middlemen who manage the purchases) make even a minimal effort at not having this system be broken by default?
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  > Nineteenth century homesteaders could send their kids off to market with appropriate funds to buy what they needed. Now all of a sudden this doesn't work and kids by default have access to near infinite (at their scales) lines of credit because of internet purchasing. Huh? The old model is working just as well as ever. Why would you give your kid your credit card? Have them make their internet purchases with a gift card, the non-insane way.
  - d1zzy 7y ago
    Almost all major credit cards have a system to generate virtual card numbers with dollar limits on them. Generate a virtual card number with some limit, give to the kid or configure it on their device. Every time you need to increase the limit you have to login on a site that only the parent has access to.
- filoleg 7y ago
  Is toggling a single simple menu setting before handing off your portable computer you use for managing your life to your child considered a legitimate burden? >Why can't app vendors (and in particular their middlemen who manage the purchases) make even a minimal effort at not having this system be broken by default? Apple put an effort into making it all locked behind a simple menu setting, which to me looks about as functional and non-broken as it can get. I don't know what more can one expect from a company, aside from being able to read the mind of whoever is using the device at the moment and automatically adjust permissions based on that.
notus 7y ago
> boiled down to "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I will blame someone else for it and make it their responsibility." When you add multiple devices/platforms/app stores it becomes a lot more difficult. Sure it is a relatively seamless experience on one platform, but not all of them. Additionally, parents who didn't grow up with cellphones don't even think about this stuff until it happens. It isn't common sense for them.
la_barba 7y ago
Its written in a click-bait style (what news story isn't these days?) but the only take-home here for parents is that smartphone==credit card. The other issue is that usually for physical credit cards, its easy for a parent to keep it off limits. But if you're signed into services that can auto-charge you, things are a bit more tricky. Even if you had a separate account for your child, and only use a CC to authorize on a per-transaction basis, services can auto-save your CC info, and bury this fact inside some 20 page ToS.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  It's also that even if you do hide your credit card, your child only needs to take possession of it once to have it auto-saved somewhere.
  - la_barba 7y ago
    That is true, I guess I was thinking more of a "stole $10 from the kitchen drawer to buy candy" kind of child, not a "impersonated dad, and wired entire life savings to russia" kind of child.
    - bobthepanda 7y ago
      Rifling through a wallet for cash and doing it for the credit card in the next pocket are basically the same action to a child who doesn't know better. And it's not like it's a good or reasonable idea for parents to come home and lock up their wallet in a safe.
falcolas 7y ago
Defaults matter. We say this all over the place when designing interfaces. None of these solutions being proposed are the "default". The "default" is to make it as simple and straightforward as possible to give the platforms and developers money. Worse, all it takes is one mistake on one device to open up a whole can of financial woe when it comes to a child on a device.
darkpuma 7y ago
It's immoral to exploit children under any circumstances, even (especially!) when the child has neglectful or careless parents.
BLKNSLVR 7y ago
I've been in IT Admin for years, and one of my kids managed to subscribe to two things in one day, one that cost $10 per month and one that was $78 per year, despite having exactly these kinds of controls already set on the device. Thankfully I receive a notification email for activity on the account, so I was able to go through the non-obvious method of unsubscribing before the "three-day free trial" expired when the charges would have started. The device was setup to require a password for in-app purchases. They even need a password to install new, free apps. I've since locked down the devices even harder, having looked up various guides on all the various settings that need to be changed from their very open defaults. I've also removed credit card details from the shared family account - which can't be done from the device itself, only via the online account management tool. I still don't know how those subscriptions got through, but they did. Thanks for the reminder though, I'm going to check through those settings again, just to make sure they're still tight, and haven't been re-opened by a software update or other "insecure by default" situation. I can't imagine how far outside 'normal' this level of IT device maintenance is for regular folk.
- uponcoffee 7y ago
  Android is worse still, there is still no good way to implement parental controls that cant be circumvented by a few minutes on google.
neilalexander 7y ago
> And it is very easy and intuitive to set up too, so it isn't like it is hidden behind millions of menus and dark patterns. Disagree on the basis that neither "Screen Time" nor "Content & Privacy Restrictions" are terms that imply having anything to do with spending money. They could have a top-level settings item called "Parental Controls" and they choose not to.
clarkey252 7y ago
I agree that this is preventable but you can't assume that everyone knows these things, especially when there is an article like this that doesn't contain any help or advice! Of all people the BBC should be using this opportunity to help people.
AlexandrB 7y ago
Games with randomized spending of real money should be classified as “gambling” and treated appropriately. Then it’s safe to blame the parents. At the moment, games are transitioning from an entertainment product suitable for anyone to a gambling product only for adults. It’s hard to keep track of which game series have made this transition or not, so I don’t blame the parents too much.

sjg007 7y ago

In-app purchases should be off by default.

vorpalhex 7y ago
They are unless you add a card, and sign in, and enable the ability to pay without using your password.
- shakyshakyshaky 7y ago
  most children are using their parents' apple IDs.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    So you are admitting that the default users of those phones are adults. In which case, it makes sense that the defaults are set for adults. If an adult is handing their phone (with a credit card enabled on it) to their child, it is expected that they should think of things that can go wrong and disable in-app purchases. If a parent cannot even attempt to keep an eye on what their child is doing on their phone OR click a simple menu setting that disables in-app purchases, I would personally worry about their child way beyond what they can do on their phone.

willk 7y ago

These games were not just on Apple's platform. I think these types of games are predatory. What is wrong with just selling a whole game? It is hard to find any game these days that comes out complete. Blizzard did it with Star Craft 2 and for that reason, I refused to buy it.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hombre_fatal 7y ago
There are plenty of games you can buy on the iOS store. What's wrong with buying a whole game?
- falcolas 7y ago
  Even "whole" games (like the latest $60 FIFA release) have unlimited microtransactions. And it's not limited to iOS, or Android. It's on most internet connected platforms.
filoleg 7y ago
I agree with your point about non-apple platforms. I cannot enumerate all of them, but it would be silly of me to expect all of them to handle that scenario gracefully, and I believe they should be required to. However, Starcraft 2 is complete and been this way since the inception. They added microtransactions years after the full release, and they all boil down to cosmetics and other completely optional and non-necessary things, like skins and banners, i.e. cosmetics. Something for hardcore fans to buy in order to support their game, but absolutely non-essential for the actual full experience. And I am saying that as someone who hasn't spent a single dime on Starcraft 2, aside from buying the full game on release (+the expansions that came out years later) and putting hundreds of hours into it.
- Kiro 7y ago
  They mean the fact that the game came out in instalments, which is a ridiculous complaint and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

ajross 7y ago

> "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I will blame someone else for it and make it their responsibility." For centuries, it's been trivially possible for parents to manage their children's access to funds. Nineteenth century homesteaders could send their kids off to market with appropriate funds to buy what they needed. Now all of a sudden this doesn't work and kids by default have access to near infinite (at their scales) lines of credit because of internet purchasing. Why is this burden suddenly on the parents? Why can't app vendors (and in particular their middlemen who manage the purchases) make even a minimal effort at not having this system be broken by default?

thaumasiotes 7y ago
> Nineteenth century homesteaders could send their kids off to market with appropriate funds to buy what they needed. Now all of a sudden this doesn't work and kids by default have access to near infinite (at their scales) lines of credit because of internet purchasing. Huh? The old model is working just as well as ever. Why would you give your kid your credit card? Have them make their internet purchases with a gift card, the non-insane way.
- d1zzy 7y ago
  Almost all major credit cards have a system to generate virtual card numbers with dollar limits on them. Generate a virtual card number with some limit, give to the kid or configure it on their device. Every time you need to increase the limit you have to login on a site that only the parent has access to.
filoleg 7y ago
Is toggling a single simple menu setting before handing off your portable computer you use for managing your life to your child considered a legitimate burden? >Why can't app vendors (and in particular their middlemen who manage the purchases) make even a minimal effort at not having this system be broken by default? Apple put an effort into making it all locked behind a simple menu setting, which to me looks about as functional and non-broken as it can get. I don't know what more can one expect from a company, aside from being able to read the mind of whoever is using the device at the moment and automatically adjust permissions based on that.

notus 7y ago

> boiled down to "I cannot put even a minimal effort in keeping an eye on my children, so I will blame someone else for it and make it their responsibility." When you add multiple devices/platforms/app stores it becomes a lot more difficult. Sure it is a relatively seamless experience on one platform, but not all of them. Additionally, parents who didn't grow up with cellphones don't even think about this stuff until it happens. It isn't common sense for them.

la_barba 7y ago

Its written in a click-bait style (what news story isn't these days?) but the only take-home here for parents is that smartphone==credit card. The other issue is that usually for physical credit cards, its easy for a parent to keep it off limits. But if you're signed into services that can auto-charge you, things are a bit more tricky. Even if you had a separate account for your child, and only use a CC to authorize on a per-transaction basis, services can auto-save your CC info, and bury this fact inside some 20 page ToS.

bobthepanda 7y ago
It's also that even if you do hide your credit card, your child only needs to take possession of it once to have it auto-saved somewhere.
- la_barba 7y ago
  That is true, I guess I was thinking more of a "stole $10 from the kitchen drawer to buy candy" kind of child, not a "impersonated dad, and wired entire life savings to russia" kind of child.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    Rifling through a wallet for cash and doing it for the credit card in the next pocket are basically the same action to a child who doesn't know better. And it's not like it's a good or reasonable idea for parents to come home and lock up their wallet in a safe.

falcolas 7y ago

Defaults matter. We say this all over the place when designing interfaces. None of these solutions being proposed are the "default". The "default" is to make it as simple and straightforward as possible to give the platforms and developers money. Worse, all it takes is one mistake on one device to open up a whole can of financial woe when it comes to a child on a device.

darkpuma 7y ago

It's immoral to exploit children under any circumstances, even (especially!) when the child has neglectful or careless parents.

BLKNSLVR 7y ago

I've been in IT Admin for years, and one of my kids managed to subscribe to two things in one day, one that cost $10 per month and one that was $78 per year, despite having exactly these kinds of controls already set on the device. Thankfully I receive a notification email for activity on the account, so I was able to go through the non-obvious method of unsubscribing before the "three-day free trial" expired when the charges would have started. The device was setup to require a password for in-app purchases. They even need a password to install new, free apps. I've since locked down the devices even harder, having looked up various guides on all the various settings that need to be changed from their very open defaults. I've also removed credit card details from the shared family account - which can't be done from the device itself, only via the online account management tool. I still don't know how those subscriptions got through, but they did. Thanks for the reminder though, I'm going to check through those settings again, just to make sure they're still tight, and haven't been re-opened by a software update or other "insecure by default" situation. I can't imagine how far outside 'normal' this level of IT device maintenance is for regular folk.

uponcoffee 7y ago
Android is worse still, there is still no good way to implement parental controls that cant be circumvented by a few minutes on google.

neilalexander 7y ago

> And it is very easy and intuitive to set up too, so it isn't like it is hidden behind millions of menus and dark patterns. Disagree on the basis that neither "Screen Time" nor "Content & Privacy Restrictions" are terms that imply having anything to do with spending money. They could have a top-level settings item called "Parental Controls" and they choose not to.

clarkey252 7y ago

I agree that this is preventable but you can't assume that everyone knows these things, especially when there is an article like this that doesn't contain any help or advice! Of all people the BBC should be using this opportunity to help people.

AlexandrB 7y ago

Games with randomized spending of real money should be classified as “gambling” and treated appropriately. Then it’s safe to blame the parents. At the moment, games are transitioning from an entertainment product suitable for anyone to a gambling product only for adults. It’s hard to keep track of which game series have made this transition or not, so I don’t blame the parents too much.