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When I was living in China this didn't bother most of the Han Chinese I met. Most of them were so concerned about lifting their families out of poverty and prov

When I was living in China this didn't bother most of the Han Chinese I met. Most of them were so concerned about lifting their families out of poverty and providing for their future that if you said to them "but you can't speak out about human rights abuses" they'd just look at you like "why the hell would I want to do that".

asdfman123 7y ago
Maybe they don't talk about it because they know they are not allowed to talk about it. I knew a Chinese exchange student who would debate all sorts of things, but when you brought up the Chinese government she would come to a hard stop and say "I don't talk about that." It's probably smart if you're from an authoritarian country.
- Nexusone 7y ago
  你说的确实是个问题，中国人和中国人之间讨论没问题，但是如果和一个外国人讨论，那就有问题了。像你这样的，一开始就认为这个国家是专制的，那我和你讨论只会越来越糟，然后你回到了你的国家，谁知道你又会怎么描述我当时所说的东西呢？
- vkou 7y ago
  > I knew a Chinese exchange student who would debate all sorts of things, but when you brought up the Chinese government she would come to a hard stop and say "I don't talk about that." If she's considering immigrating to the United States at any point in the future, she would be wise to not debate anything that has to do with the United States, in any electronically recorded medium. All visa/status adjustment applicants now have to turn over their social media identities. It would be prudent for her to not express a viewpoint[1] that might have an adverse impact on her immigration. [1] What are those viewpoints? We don't know - CBP won't tell anyone. And whatever they will tell, may very well change in the future.
  - PavlovsCat 7y ago
    That doesn't even address the point, which is not everybody who claims they don't care actually doesn't care.
- benjaminbrodie 7y ago
  There's a legitimate point to view according to which democracy and the right to vote don't really matter that much. At the end of the day people want to live meaningful, fulfilling lives, and there's little reason to think that living under an authoritarian regime per se has any impact on your life's meaning or affects one's ability to pursue intrinsically rewarding activities (unlike, say, poverty, which does pose a genuine obstacle, because it forces one to become someone else's machine for a big portion of one's life). If anything it may have a salutary effect by discouraging people from pursuing politics or engaging in political conversations (which is the unmeaningful activity par excellence, as additive as video games, while at the same time carrying far more danger because one tends not to feel guilty about wasting one's time on it).
- asdfgasd 7y ago
  Maybe you should actually spend some time in China before making silly assumptions. The Chinese government is not overly concerned with individual citizens sharing anti-government sentiment. It's not a problem for most people that aren't activists. Most people are concerned with much more basic aspects of life... supporting their families, getting good jobs, time for leisure... It doesn't mean it's acceptable, but assuming that every Chinese citizen lives in fear of the government cracking down on their political complaints is totally unfounded. The exchange student you know could just as well have been sick of westerners thinking they know more about the CCP than someone raised in China.
  - cltsang 7y ago
    That is not true. The Chinese government has been actively monitoring [0] all popular online messaging platforms, and shutting down any opinion that is considered by the government anti-government. There is also some new network security law [1] that enforces companies, from ISP to website operators, to self-censor, and to pinpoint every action from every user, such that officials could collect the data as they wish [2]. The whole process is already well organized and somewhat automated. Now that the social credit score system is being deployed to more major cities, the threat of free speech is climbing to the next level. You may say they don't fear. But I argue that many Chinese citizens don't even realize why they feel very uncomfortable and insecure to talk about politics. They think people who voice out are stupid. The reason deep down, is fear. [0]: https://twitter.com/0xDUDE/status/1101909112131080192 https://twitter.com/0xDUDE/status/1101909112131080192 [1]: http://www.hk-lawyer.org/content/china-passes-network-security-law http://www.hk-lawyer.org/content/china-passes-network-securi... [2]: https://www.zdnet.com/article/chinas-cybersecurity-law-update-lets-state-agencies-pen-test-local-companies/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/chinas-cybersecurity-law-updat...
    - powerapple 7y ago
      that's why people don't really want to debate. A thinks B is brainwashed. full stop. There is no debate.
PavlovsCat 7y ago
For the same reason non-Chinese students might worry about Chinese students in the US being treated badly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

asdfman123 7y ago

Maybe they don't talk about it because they know they are not allowed to talk about it. I knew a Chinese exchange student who would debate all sorts of things, but when you brought up the Chinese government she would come to a hard stop and say "I don't talk about that." It's probably smart if you're from an authoritarian country.

Nexusone 7y ago
你说的确实是个问题，中国人和中国人之间讨论没问题，但是如果和一个外国人讨论，那就有问题了。像你这样的，一开始就认为这个国家是专制的，那我和你讨论只会越来越糟，然后你回到了你的国家，谁知道你又会怎么描述我当时所说的东西呢？
vkou 7y ago
> I knew a Chinese exchange student who would debate all sorts of things, but when you brought up the Chinese government she would come to a hard stop and say "I don't talk about that." If she's considering immigrating to the United States at any point in the future, she would be wise to not debate anything that has to do with the United States, in any electronically recorded medium. All visa/status adjustment applicants now have to turn over their social media identities. It would be prudent for her to not express a viewpoint[1] that might have an adverse impact on her immigration. [1] What are those viewpoints? We don't know - CBP won't tell anyone. And whatever they will tell, may very well change in the future.
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  That doesn't even address the point, which is not everybody who claims they don't care actually doesn't care.
benjaminbrodie 7y ago
There's a legitimate point to view according to which democracy and the right to vote don't really matter that much. At the end of the day people want to live meaningful, fulfilling lives, and there's little reason to think that living under an authoritarian regime per se has any impact on your life's meaning or affects one's ability to pursue intrinsically rewarding activities (unlike, say, poverty, which does pose a genuine obstacle, because it forces one to become someone else's machine for a big portion of one's life). If anything it may have a salutary effect by discouraging people from pursuing politics or engaging in political conversations (which is the unmeaningful activity par excellence, as additive as video games, while at the same time carrying far more danger because one tends not to feel guilty about wasting one's time on it).
asdfgasd 7y ago
Maybe you should actually spend some time in China before making silly assumptions. The Chinese government is not overly concerned with individual citizens sharing anti-government sentiment. It's not a problem for most people that aren't activists. Most people are concerned with much more basic aspects of life... supporting their families, getting good jobs, time for leisure... It doesn't mean it's acceptable, but assuming that every Chinese citizen lives in fear of the government cracking down on their political complaints is totally unfounded. The exchange student you know could just as well have been sick of westerners thinking they know more about the CCP than someone raised in China.
- cltsang 7y ago
  That is not true. The Chinese government has been actively monitoring [0] all popular online messaging platforms, and shutting down any opinion that is considered by the government anti-government. There is also some new network security law [1] that enforces companies, from ISP to website operators, to self-censor, and to pinpoint every action from every user, such that officials could collect the data as they wish [2]. The whole process is already well organized and somewhat automated. Now that the social credit score system is being deployed to more major cities, the threat of free speech is climbing to the next level. You may say they don't fear. But I argue that many Chinese citizens don't even realize why they feel very uncomfortable and insecure to talk about politics. They think people who voice out are stupid. The reason deep down, is fear. [0]: https://twitter.com/0xDUDE/status/1101909112131080192 https://twitter.com/0xDUDE/status/1101909112131080192 [1]: http://www.hk-lawyer.org/content/china-passes-network-security-law http://www.hk-lawyer.org/content/china-passes-network-securi... [2]: https://www.zdnet.com/article/chinas-cybersecurity-law-update-lets-state-agencies-pen-test-local-companies/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/chinas-cybersecurity-law-updat...
  - powerapple 7y ago
    that's why people don't really want to debate. A thinks B is brainwashed. full stop. There is no debate.

PavlovsCat 7y ago

For the same reason non-Chinese students might worry about Chinese students in the US being treated badly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule