4 ms·

Every time I hear these stories, I don't know if they've done the math. Let's say I live in Toronto (an expensive city to live in) and make 10$/h after taxes w

Every time I hear these stories, I don't know if they've done the math. Let's say I live in Toronto (an expensive city to live in) and make 10$/h after taxes working at Starbucks. 40h/week, 4.5 weeks/mo = 1800$ Bedroom in apartment = 700$ Metropass = 150$ Phone = 50$ Internet = 50$ Food = 350$ Total = 1300$ That's 500$ left for things like going out, clothes, etc. Nobody is exploiting your friends - it sounds like she complained to you, you took her words at face value and concluded that those other people are at fault.

ABCLAW 7y ago
I live in Toronto, those numbers are hilarious. You cannot live in this city on a yearly wage of 21600. Not only are your numbers wrong individually, but they're also woefully under representative because your fake individual isn't buying toiletries, isn't paying for dental, doesn't purchase clothing, doesn't have any medical consumables to purchase, only eats a meal per day or so, etc. I've done the math. I've lived here. I've financed years of study in the city on loans and been on Ontario Works at times at the start of my career. Your model is poorly constructed.
- rococode 7y ago
  Honestly wondering because I've fortunately not needed to budget this closely before: OP said $350 for food and "500$ left for things like going out, clothes, etc.". Does that not cover what you bring up? ~$11.60 per day for food seems enough for a healthy three meals a day for one person - a quick google shows numbers like $250/month on a "moderate budget" for food. I feel if you're eating one $11 meal every day that's probably a good place to start cutting down on the spending. Is $500 not enough for toiletries, dental, clothes, etc.? Looking at the past month of my own spending, I bought a couple rolls of toilet paper, a tube of toothpaste, body soap, no new clothes, some skincare stuff, and probably $150 worth of insurance. Maybe I forgot a ton of things but I don't think I spent close to $500 on the "extra necessities", as I would call them. Just to be clear, I don't disagree with you that $21600 is too little to live on. But I mostly buy OP's numbers, which makes me wonder what I'm missing. Debt payments, maybe?
  - ToFundorNot 7y ago
    $11 per day for meals is low, most people who live alone will spend roughly $15 a day (a single meal from McDonald's for instance is $10.95). The cheapest 'eat out' option is roughly $6 for a single meal at Costco/Ikea. Even peanut butter + jelly for every meal, and water for a drink is over $3 a day. Also, for rent, it's more like $800 for a single room in a shared unit, a bachelor is closer to $1500.
    - JamesBarney 7y ago
      Maybe Toronto is way more expensive than Houston, but a cheese burger from McDonalds is $1 and 300 calories. Pre-made Tasty Bites are like 2.40 and you can throwthem on a bed of rice and eat 3 meals for $10 a day. And if you cook yourself and eat mostly vegetarian or cheap meats you can easily get your per meal costs into the $2 range. https://www.budgetbytes.com/ https://www.budgetbytes.com/ I know the rent is more expensive, in Houston you can easily get a ~800 sq ft 1 br 8 minutes from downtown in a nice neighborhood for $850. If you live in a 2 br with roommates or an efficiency you can get that down to $400-$500.
      - ABCLAW 7y ago
        >Maybe Toronto is way more expensive than Houston It is. >~800 sq ft 1 br 8 minutes from downtown in a nice neighborhood for $850 Lol.
      - ska 7y ago
        > I know the rent is more expensive Yes, the roughly equivalent 1br in Toronto is going to be about $2500 these days. Also keep in mind Texas has no sales tax, Ontario does. And we are talking CDN not USD (hard to directly compare some things). It's in general a bit more expensive in Toronto, across the board (except health care, obviously). Houston is one of the cheapest "proper" metros in USA and Canada.
        JamesBarney 7y ago
        I like the quotes around proper . Yeah we're proper in the sense we have a good food/cocktail/bar scene, and a great classical music/art scene. But we have no public transportation and the density doesn't even get close to other metros.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Shoot, it's not even Toronto. I live in a 2nd tier Canadian city and those numbers wouldn't fly. You might be able to swing it for a few months and not die, but that's not really any way to live.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
mkagenius 7y ago
They said $2 per hour not 10. A quick search will pop up a number of gigs paying that much.
neilv 7y ago
> Nobody is exploiting your friends - it sounds like she complained to you, you took her words at face value and concluded that those other people are at fault. You're contradicting me by stating (false) assumptions about my friend, and stating (false) conclusions predicated on those. Your analysis also neglects American Millennial debt service and healthcare costs. I used a personal example of my friend because it was close to home for me, and I thought that by mentioning it (as connected to an HNer), along with an age range, it would be somewhat closer to home to some other HN people. When people mention a potentially upsetting personal example, we should try to be delicate in wording things.

ABCLAW 7y ago

I live in Toronto, those numbers are hilarious. You cannot live in this city on a yearly wage of 21600. Not only are your numbers wrong individually, but they're also woefully under representative because your fake individual isn't buying toiletries, isn't paying for dental, doesn't purchase clothing, doesn't have any medical consumables to purchase, only eats a meal per day or so, etc. I've done the math. I've lived here. I've financed years of study in the city on loans and been on Ontario Works at times at the start of my career. Your model is poorly constructed.

rococode 7y ago
Honestly wondering because I've fortunately not needed to budget this closely before: OP said $350 for food and "500$ left for things like going out, clothes, etc.". Does that not cover what you bring up? ~$11.60 per day for food seems enough for a healthy three meals a day for one person - a quick google shows numbers like $250/month on a "moderate budget" for food. I feel if you're eating one $11 meal every day that's probably a good place to start cutting down on the spending. Is $500 not enough for toiletries, dental, clothes, etc.? Looking at the past month of my own spending, I bought a couple rolls of toilet paper, a tube of toothpaste, body soap, no new clothes, some skincare stuff, and probably $150 worth of insurance. Maybe I forgot a ton of things but I don't think I spent close to $500 on the "extra necessities", as I would call them. Just to be clear, I don't disagree with you that $21600 is too little to live on. But I mostly buy OP's numbers, which makes me wonder what I'm missing. Debt payments, maybe?
- ToFundorNot 7y ago
  $11 per day for meals is low, most people who live alone will spend roughly $15 a day (a single meal from McDonald's for instance is $10.95). The cheapest 'eat out' option is roughly $6 for a single meal at Costco/Ikea. Even peanut butter + jelly for every meal, and water for a drink is over $3 a day. Also, for rent, it's more like $800 for a single room in a shared unit, a bachelor is closer to $1500.
  - JamesBarney 7y ago
    Maybe Toronto is way more expensive than Houston, but a cheese burger from McDonalds is $1 and 300 calories. Pre-made Tasty Bites are like 2.40 and you can throwthem on a bed of rice and eat 3 meals for $10 a day. And if you cook yourself and eat mostly vegetarian or cheap meats you can easily get your per meal costs into the $2 range. https://www.budgetbytes.com/ https://www.budgetbytes.com/ I know the rent is more expensive, in Houston you can easily get a ~800 sq ft 1 br 8 minutes from downtown in a nice neighborhood for $850. If you live in a 2 br with roommates or an efficiency you can get that down to $400-$500.
    - ABCLAW 7y ago
      >Maybe Toronto is way more expensive than Houston It is. >~800 sq ft 1 br 8 minutes from downtown in a nice neighborhood for $850 Lol.
    - ska 7y ago
      > I know the rent is more expensive Yes, the roughly equivalent 1br in Toronto is going to be about $2500 these days. Also keep in mind Texas has no sales tax, Ontario does. And we are talking CDN not USD (hard to directly compare some things). It's in general a bit more expensive in Toronto, across the board (except health care, obviously). Houston is one of the cheapest "proper" metros in USA and Canada.
      - JamesBarney 7y ago
        I like the quotes around proper . Yeah we're proper in the sense we have a good food/cocktail/bar scene, and a great classical music/art scene. But we have no public transportation and the density doesn't even get close to other metros.
blaser-waffle 7y ago
Shoot, it's not even Toronto. I live in a 2nd tier Canadian city and those numbers wouldn't fly. You might be able to swing it for a few months and not die, but that's not really any way to live.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

mkagenius 7y ago

They said $2 per hour not 10. A quick search will pop up a number of gigs paying that much.

neilv 7y ago

> Nobody is exploiting your friends - it sounds like she complained to you, you took her words at face value and concluded that those other people are at fault. You're contradicting me by stating (false) assumptions about my friend, and stating (false) conclusions predicated on those. Your analysis also neglects American Millennial debt service and healthcare costs. I used a personal example of my friend because it was close to home for me, and I thought that by mentioning it (as connected to an HNer), along with an age range, it would be somewhat closer to home to some other HN people. When people mention a potentially upsetting personal example, we should try to be delicate in wording things.