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The fundamental difference between humans and animals is the ability to export and maintain state across generations in a Turing-complete language. This allows

by iwwr 16y ago

The fundamental difference between humans and animals is the ability to export and maintain state across generations in a Turing-complete language. This allows knowledge to be built upon up to arbitrary levels of abstraction. Language is not just a communication tool, it's a meta-tool that defines the human being. We don't know if the Neanderthal had this ability, but if it did, it was obviously less adept at it.

wallflower 16y ago
I've never heard human learning expressed this way. Can you please write up more of your thoughts about this? Brief State Machine anecdote: Any automated door that swings out has a FSM or circuit equivalent that blocks swinging out if someone is standing on the pressure pad of the outside portion. We used to have fun blocking in friends this way...
- Scriptor 16y ago
  I'm not sure about the specifics of what iwwr is thinking, but basically I think he means that humans have the ability to create and pass on knowledge (state) from one generation to the next. Because each generation only has to build off of the knowledge of previous ones there is no set limit to how much humans as a whole can know. Technically, this ability isn't unique to humans alone. Other species, such as dolphins and chimpanzees, are also able to create and pass on knowledge. For example, certain dolphins around Florida have developed a strategy of catching fish by first encircling areas of water by kicked up sand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArsoMcVi5MM&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArsoMcVi5MM&feature=playe... This is purely a learned behavior and has to be taught to offspring.
  - iwwr 16y ago
    Dolphins or apes may have a recognizable culture, but they don't have a Turing-complete language. This is the main distinction.
JoeAltmaier 16y ago
And if it didn't, then they definitely didn't have to listen to their kids complaining about eating vegetables!

by iwwr 16y ago

wallflower 16y ago

I've never heard human learning expressed this way. Can you please write up more of your thoughts about this? Brief State Machine anecdote: Any automated door that swings out has a FSM or circuit equivalent that blocks swinging out if someone is standing on the pressure pad of the outside portion. We used to have fun blocking in friends this way...

Scriptor 16y ago
I'm not sure about the specifics of what iwwr is thinking, but basically I think he means that humans have the ability to create and pass on knowledge (state) from one generation to the next. Because each generation only has to build off of the knowledge of previous ones there is no set limit to how much humans as a whole can know. Technically, this ability isn't unique to humans alone. Other species, such as dolphins and chimpanzees, are also able to create and pass on knowledge. For example, certain dolphins around Florida have developed a strategy of catching fish by first encircling areas of water by kicked up sand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArsoMcVi5MM&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArsoMcVi5MM&feature=playe... This is purely a learned behavior and has to be taught to offspring.
- iwwr 16y ago
  Dolphins or apes may have a recognizable culture, but they don't have a Turing-complete language. This is the main distinction.

JoeAltmaier 16y ago

And if it didn't, then they definitely didn't have to listen to their kids complaining about eating vegetables!