4 ms·

This is pretty bad. The usual argument of "if you don't like it don't use Facebook/Google/(insert company here)" doesn't apply here. You have to interact with t

This is pretty bad. The usual argument of "if you don't like it don't use Facebook/Google/(insert company here)" doesn't apply here. You have to interact with the government to get a DL, there are no competitors. Therefor government services should treat personal information with the utmost respect and discretion, not sell it off to the highest bidder.

itake 7y ago
In Florida, its not personal though and its not just DMVs. Basically if the government has your information, anyone can submit a FOIA request to get it. This is particularly bad with licensed professionals (Real Estate agents, hair saloon cutters, etc.) that have to have a business license to operate. You can get the contact information (email, home address, phone number) for all of these individuals b/c its required by law for you to provide that and it be publicly listed.
- pavel_lishin 7y ago
  > In Florida, its not personal though and its not just DMVs. Basically if the government has your information, anyone can submit a FOIA request to get it. This is particularly bad with licensed professionals (Real Estate agents, hair saloon cutters, etc.) that have to have a business license to operate. But it sounds like this case is different - the companies in question didn't submit FOIA requests, the DMV sold them for profit. Speaking of FOIA, from further in the article: > The I-Team wanted to know how much of that money came from marketing firms, but the agency in charge of driver information estimated it would take 154 hours of research and cost nearly $3,000 for the state to give taxpayers an answer.
  - jonwachob91 7y ago
    >>> But it sounds like this case is different - the companies in question didn't submit FOIA requests, the DMV sold them for profit. The way I interpreted it (and from prior experience with FOIA requests), a government agency can charge you a fee for processing a FOIA request. So the $77MM that the FL DMV made from "sales" of personal information, I interpret as FOIA fees collected for processing FOIA requests. I could be wrong, that just how I interpreted the article.
    - pavel_lishin 7y ago
      I thought that could be true as well, but this line from the article makes me think otherwise: > One of the data brokers accessing Florida DMV information is Arkansas-based marketing firm Acxiom, which has an agreement with the state to buy driver and ID cardholder data for a penny a record. Maybe that's just some sort of agreement to automate the FOIA process, but it does imply at least a qualitative difference from the kinds of access you and I get vs. the kind of access that Acxiom gets.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > hair saloon cutters You need a government-issued licence to cut hair in Florida?!
  - HeyLaughingBoy 7y ago
    Pretty much all states require a hairdresser's license.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      How does the government determine whether something creative like hair dressing is at a good enough standard?
      - dec0dedab0de 7y ago
        It's ostensibly about making sure you don't spread disease. Edit: changed mostly to ostensibly, because of comments below.
        civilian 7y ago
        It's not. In many states it's a 6-month program. A "don't spread disease" course could be done in 8 hours. It's about making it harder for people to compete with the existing hair dressers. It's about forcing students into schools. It's about extracting rent from the economy. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cosmetology-rules-show-ab_b_5791894 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cosmetology-rules-show-ab_b_5... https://reason.com/2016/08/03/do-you-have-a-license-to-braid-that-hair/ https://reason.com/2016/08/03/do-you-have-a-license-to-braid...
        jrs235 7y ago
        Funny how the chair of the county GOP where I currently live belongs to a party, the GOP, that screams about too many regulations and government shouldn't be picking winners and losers yet he and his wife own and operate a salon school, which in our state is required to cut hair and consists of hundreds of hours to "graduate". The hypocrisy is sickening...
- opportune 7y ago
  Can you not hire some legal services business to hold the title of your business in some kind of trust? Kind of like what you can do for domain names to obfuscate the true owner
qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago
I'm going to write this, and it's going to fall on deaf ears. Not my bros here, but the public, in general. Elections have consequences and the public does not hold elected officials accountable by the low voter turnout reported. I mean, what - 20% of eligible people vote in local elections, and 50% for presidentials?

itake 7y ago

In Florida, its not personal though and its not just DMVs. Basically if the government has your information, anyone can submit a FOIA request to get it. This is particularly bad with licensed professionals (Real Estate agents, hair saloon cutters, etc.) that have to have a business license to operate. You can get the contact information (email, home address, phone number) for all of these individuals b/c its required by law for you to provide that and it be publicly listed.

pavel_lishin 7y ago
> In Florida, its not personal though and its not just DMVs. Basically if the government has your information, anyone can submit a FOIA request to get it. This is particularly bad with licensed professionals (Real Estate agents, hair saloon cutters, etc.) that have to have a business license to operate. But it sounds like this case is different - the companies in question didn't submit FOIA requests, the DMV sold them for profit. Speaking of FOIA, from further in the article: > The I-Team wanted to know how much of that money came from marketing firms, but the agency in charge of driver information estimated it would take 154 hours of research and cost nearly $3,000 for the state to give taxpayers an answer.
- jonwachob91 7y ago
  >>> But it sounds like this case is different - the companies in question didn't submit FOIA requests, the DMV sold them for profit. The way I interpreted it (and from prior experience with FOIA requests), a government agency can charge you a fee for processing a FOIA request. So the $77MM that the FL DMV made from "sales" of personal information, I interpret as FOIA fees collected for processing FOIA requests. I could be wrong, that just how I interpreted the article.
  - pavel_lishin 7y ago
    I thought that could be true as well, but this line from the article makes me think otherwise: > One of the data brokers accessing Florida DMV information is Arkansas-based marketing firm Acxiom, which has an agreement with the state to buy driver and ID cardholder data for a penny a record. Maybe that's just some sort of agreement to automate the FOIA process, but it does imply at least a qualitative difference from the kinds of access you and I get vs. the kind of access that Acxiom gets.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> hair saloon cutters You need a government-issued licence to cut hair in Florida?!
- HeyLaughingBoy 7y ago
  Pretty much all states require a hairdresser's license.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    How does the government determine whether something creative like hair dressing is at a good enough standard?
    - dec0dedab0de 7y ago
      It's ostensibly about making sure you don't spread disease. Edit: changed mostly to ostensibly, because of comments below.
      - civilian 7y ago
        It's not. In many states it's a 6-month program. A "don't spread disease" course could be done in 8 hours. It's about making it harder for people to compete with the existing hair dressers. It's about forcing students into schools. It's about extracting rent from the economy. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cosmetology-rules-show-ab_b_5791894 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cosmetology-rules-show-ab_b_5... https://reason.com/2016/08/03/do-you-have-a-license-to-braid-that-hair/ https://reason.com/2016/08/03/do-you-have-a-license-to-braid...
        jrs235 7y ago
        Funny how the chair of the county GOP where I currently live belongs to a party, the GOP, that screams about too many regulations and government shouldn't be picking winners and losers yet he and his wife own and operate a salon school, which in our state is required to cut hair and consists of hundreds of hours to "graduate". The hypocrisy is sickening...
opportune 7y ago
Can you not hire some legal services business to hold the title of your business in some kind of trust? Kind of like what you can do for domain names to obfuscate the true owner

qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago

I'm going to write this, and it's going to fall on deaf ears. Not my bros here, but the public, in general. Elections have consequences and the public does not hold elected officials accountable by the low voter turnout reported. I mean, what - 20% of eligible people vote in local elections, and 50% for presidentials?