4 ms·

>If Android were serious about their developers, they would bake in standard animations. Why do you presume that they haven't? Every View has intrinsic full an

by ergo98 16y ago

>If Android were serious about their developers, they would bake in standard animations. Why do you presume that they haven't? Every View has intrinsic full animation support, and of course there's a full simile of CoreAnimation in android.view.animation. So why don't Android apps make use of it? Generally as a function of time, care, and craftsmanship. Too often Android apps were second tier, and many Android app writers were doing it to scratch an itch (versus for the iPhone where it is typically productized). Android apps have the potential to be just as slick, just as polished, and just as nuanced and emotional as any iphone app. The state today is that they aren't, but that isn't any intrinsic failure of the platform. Honestly, though, I find that sort of observation superficial and just incredibly boring. Every iphone user when they touch an Android device will immediately comment on the lack of slickness of the non-GPU using transitions. As a day to day Android user, using my phone for virtually everything and anything, this has absolutely ZERO impact on my enjoyment of the device. To say it is unnoticed is still giving it too much credit. It's superficial bedazzling that differentiates based upon the utterly irrelevant.

wallflower 16y ago
As someone who will likely be doing a considerable Android port from scratch (hopefully one that does not suck too much) in the first half of next year, thank you for this intel. I think the iPhone user smugness starts at the very beginning - with the swipe to unlock. As Jerry Seinfeld (somewhat incorrectly) riffed in his latest show - "With these new phones you can't get all mad and yell <expletive> and slam the phone down - it has to be (Jerry pantomimes yelling on the phone and then gently swiping to hang up). Jerry also had a brilliant observation on how he goes to lunch with friends and they have their Blackberry in hand and they might be looking at you but they're really not - he termed it - they have painted doll eyes. But I digress, I believe long-term (2011) that you will not be taken seriously if you cannot deliver an Android app. A mobile web site is a poor substitute - and most defy my 1st law of mobile apps - the ability to work with it offline..
silvestrov 16y ago
Looking only at the functionality and completely ignoring the design is superficial. Animations are a core part of the design, they make it much easier for normal people to understand transitions and spatial interfaces in the UI, e.g. when going from one screen to another in a hierarchy. And they make it look nicer. (When was the last time a consumer bought a car by specs instead of by looks?) First we had text-based UIs (hello /bin/sh). Then we had static GUIs. Now we have animated GUIs. Many old-school unix gurus couldn't see the need for GUIs, e.g. BrianK said "What You See Is All You Get" about WYSIWYG because he thought GUIs were more limited than text-based UIs. But for normal people, the 'G' in GUI was the important letter and is what enables them to use the computer. edit: added missing word: 'limited'
- ergo98 16y ago
  >Looking only at the functionality and completely ignoring the design is superficial. Who is completely ignoring the design? My comment was specifically and only about essentially spurious, extraneous chrome -- literally interface bedazzling. It has nothing whatsoever to do with usability, and actually little to do with design. You know I still marvel that Apple is held as the gold standard of design. The iPhones notification system is truly terrible. The messaging system is a god awful sin of design (for the longest time I simply could not believe that the screenshots posted were actually from the esteemed iPhone). Many of the transition effects stink of excess.
  - alanh 16y ago
    I downvoted you for asserting that animations have nothing to do with usability or design, and that they are "nothing more than interface bedazzling." Animations and movement can communicate a lot. They can give a sense of place and aid navigation, especially in "Navigation-based" apps (those with that left-pointing button in the top-left). They can enhance the perceived speed of the software. They can be annoying if abused, and on iOS I do not believe they are. They can lend a touch of consistency and increase the perceived value of the software or entire device. And that's off the top of my head.
    - ergo98 16y ago
      I actually said "My comment was specifically and only about essentially spurious, extraneous chrome", which you extrapolated, and got upvotes, for misrepresenting as "animations have nothing to do with usability or design". Kudos on your misdirection.
      - alanh 16y ago
        What “spurious, extraneous chrome” are you referencing, and are you really attempting to claim said chrome has no effect on the user experience?
  - readymade 16y ago
wallflower 16y ago
I'd be interested in your take on this. The issue is not whether it is the lack of GPU or GC overhead - it is the smoothness (Apple's gold standard is 60fps). Comment #34 from 'Request for GPU support' thread linked in this comment thread by pkaler (http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914) > I agree with the common opinion here... It is very hard to pitch Android to someone who is not tech savy, simply because of the choppy and sluggish UI. This has also become the talk of the masses, most people who haven't even used Android say the following: "I've seen Android, its cool, but its not as smooth and stable as the iPhone." The iPhone's hardware fails a lot (I've exchanged my 3Gs twice in less than a year), it also freezes at times and drops calls, but what do people see and remember!? UI!! If android wishes to ever compete seriously with iOS, GPU acceleration is a must!
- stcredzero 16y ago
  what do people see and remember!? UI!! This is how most software purchase/development decisions are made, especially those with multi-million dollar consequences.
rphlx 16y ago
The animations subtract value because they waste the only thing that matters in life: time. I don't have an iPhone, but I assume most of the animations are mandatory, and that is completely aweful.

by ergo98 16y ago

wallflower 16y ago

As someone who will likely be doing a considerable Android port from scratch (hopefully one that does not suck too much) in the first half of next year, thank you for this intel. I think the iPhone user smugness starts at the very beginning - with the swipe to unlock. As Jerry Seinfeld (somewhat incorrectly) riffed in his latest show - "With these new phones you can't get all mad and yell <expletive> and slam the phone down - it has to be (Jerry pantomimes yelling on the phone and then gently swiping to hang up). Jerry also had a brilliant observation on how he goes to lunch with friends and they have their Blackberry in hand and they might be looking at you but they're really not - he termed it - they have painted doll eyes. But I digress, I believe long-term (2011) that you will not be taken seriously if you cannot deliver an Android app. A mobile web site is a poor substitute - and most defy my 1st law of mobile apps - the ability to work with it offline..

silvestrov 16y ago

Looking only at the functionality and completely ignoring the design is superficial. Animations are a core part of the design, they make it much easier for normal people to understand transitions and spatial interfaces in the UI, e.g. when going from one screen to another in a hierarchy. And they make it look nicer. (When was the last time a consumer bought a car by specs instead of by looks?) First we had text-based UIs (hello /bin/sh). Then we had static GUIs. Now we have animated GUIs. Many old-school unix gurus couldn't see the need for GUIs, e.g. BrianK said "What You See Is All You Get" about WYSIWYG because he thought GUIs were more limited than text-based UIs. But for normal people, the 'G' in GUI was the important letter and is what enables them to use the computer. edit: added missing word: 'limited'

ergo98 16y ago
>Looking only at the functionality and completely ignoring the design is superficial. Who is completely ignoring the design? My comment was specifically and only about essentially spurious, extraneous chrome -- literally interface bedazzling. It has nothing whatsoever to do with usability, and actually little to do with design. You know I still marvel that Apple is held as the gold standard of design. The iPhones notification system is truly terrible. The messaging system is a god awful sin of design (for the longest time I simply could not believe that the screenshots posted were actually from the esteemed iPhone). Many of the transition effects stink of excess.
- alanh 16y ago
  I downvoted you for asserting that animations have nothing to do with usability or design, and that they are "nothing more than interface bedazzling." Animations and movement can communicate a lot. They can give a sense of place and aid navigation, especially in "Navigation-based" apps (those with that left-pointing button in the top-left). They can enhance the perceived speed of the software. They can be annoying if abused, and on iOS I do not believe they are. They can lend a touch of consistency and increase the perceived value of the software or entire device. And that's off the top of my head.
  - ergo98 16y ago
    I actually said "My comment was specifically and only about essentially spurious, extraneous chrome", which you extrapolated, and got upvotes, for misrepresenting as "animations have nothing to do with usability or design". Kudos on your misdirection.
    - alanh 16y ago
      What “spurious, extraneous chrome” are you referencing, and are you really attempting to claim said chrome has no effect on the user experience?
- readymade 16y ago

wallflower 16y ago

I'd be interested in your take on this. The issue is not whether it is the lack of GPU or GC overhead - it is the smoothness (Apple's gold standard is 60fps). Comment #34 from 'Request for GPU support' thread linked in this comment thread by pkaler (http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914) > I agree with the common opinion here... It is very hard to pitch Android to someone who is not tech savy, simply because of the choppy and sluggish UI. This has also become the talk of the masses, most people who haven't even used Android say the following: "I've seen Android, its cool, but its not as smooth and stable as the iPhone." The iPhone's hardware fails a lot (I've exchanged my 3Gs twice in less than a year), it also freezes at times and drops calls, but what do people see and remember!? UI!! If android wishes to ever compete seriously with iOS, GPU acceleration is a must!

stcredzero 16y ago
what do people see and remember!? UI!! This is how most software purchase/development decisions are made, especially those with multi-million dollar consequences.

rphlx 16y ago

The animations subtract value because they waste the only thing that matters in life: time. I don't have an iPhone, but I assume most of the animations are mandatory, and that is completely aweful.