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Bach and Rembrandt were artists. Most companies are looking for 10x developers to write systems to manage billing, accounts, inventory, etc. I don't see how we

Bach and Rembrandt were artists. Most companies are looking for 10x developers to write systems to manage billing, accounts, inventory, etc. I don't see how we can compare Bach to someone toiling away on a better business software in any reasonable way. If there are developers out there doing work on the same level as Rembrandt or Bach then they are working in an entirely different domain. Personally, I don't think we have the ability to recognize these people and, if we did, there is no guarantee that their work would be applicable to business systems in the way that the "10x engineer" myth implies.

EForEndeavour 7y ago
Isn't it a fact that software engineering is inherently creative? While programming may not strictly count as art by most people's definitions, it is certainly not soulless or mechanical as your comment implies. In particular, Bach's music is so remarkable precisely because it combines mathematical patterns and subjective beauty. I hate the phrase, but exceptional software engineers "paint with code."
- davidjnelson 7y ago
  > Isn't it a fact that software engineering is inherently creative? Yes, absolutely. If you can create a simple, clean, extensible abstraction that hundreds of other engineers use to avoid recreating and testing functionality this could be considered 10x due to the leverage.
- cmiles74 7y ago
  I agree that software development is creative, I do think that's an important part of the process. I'm not convinced that every "10x developer" is solving software engineering problems on the same level at which Rembrandt painted or Bach composed. It seems to me that painters and composers create art that is appreciated much more widely and over a much more varied audience than software engineers. Given that the inner workings of software are visible to a much smaller audience, isn't it likely that their skills are being over-rated?
  - pizza234 7y ago
    > I'm not convinced that every "10x developer" is solving software engineering problems on the same level at which Rembrandt painted or Bach composed I think "10x developer" is a very ambiguous definition, and comparisons in other fields are confused because of this. I'd rather use the adjective "elite". It's more intuitive and unambiguous. Carmack is without doubt an elite engineer; his work, in my opinion, is on the same level as Bach's in his field.
  - EForEndeavour 7y ago
    There certainly exist developers who perform at the same level in their craft as Bach composed. Why wouldn't the positive tail of the distribution exist?
pizza234 7y ago
> I don't see how we can compare Bach to someone toiling away on a better business software in any reasonable way. As long as a domain has virtually infinite solutions, it will inherently imply creativity and quality. Even on systems with easy logical problems, as long as the architectural complexity is high enough (I guess we start from the tenths of thousands of lines?), surely there will be people who design better, safer and faster (and that will also learn faster). So they will be definitely recognizable (whether it's "2x", "10x" or "100x"). On the other hand, people with such skills very likely won't work on those systems :-) Einstein worked at a patent office, where he'd do in a short time what would require other clerks a full day of work. He was the equivalent of a "10x engineer"; he didn't work there for a very long time :-)

EForEndeavour 7y ago

Isn't it a fact that software engineering is inherently creative? While programming may not strictly count as art by most people's definitions, it is certainly not soulless or mechanical as your comment implies. In particular, Bach's music is so remarkable precisely because it combines mathematical patterns and subjective beauty. I hate the phrase, but exceptional software engineers "paint with code."

davidjnelson 7y ago
> Isn't it a fact that software engineering is inherently creative? Yes, absolutely. If you can create a simple, clean, extensible abstraction that hundreds of other engineers use to avoid recreating and testing functionality this could be considered 10x due to the leverage.
cmiles74 7y ago
I agree that software development is creative, I do think that's an important part of the process. I'm not convinced that every "10x developer" is solving software engineering problems on the same level at which Rembrandt painted or Bach composed. It seems to me that painters and composers create art that is appreciated much more widely and over a much more varied audience than software engineers. Given that the inner workings of software are visible to a much smaller audience, isn't it likely that their skills are being over-rated?
- pizza234 7y ago
  > I'm not convinced that every "10x developer" is solving software engineering problems on the same level at which Rembrandt painted or Bach composed I think "10x developer" is a very ambiguous definition, and comparisons in other fields are confused because of this. I'd rather use the adjective "elite". It's more intuitive and unambiguous. Carmack is without doubt an elite engineer; his work, in my opinion, is on the same level as Bach's in his field.
- EForEndeavour 7y ago
  There certainly exist developers who perform at the same level in their craft as Bach composed. Why wouldn't the positive tail of the distribution exist?

pizza234 7y ago

> I don't see how we can compare Bach to someone toiling away on a better business software in any reasonable way. As long as a domain has virtually infinite solutions, it will inherently imply creativity and quality. Even on systems with easy logical problems, as long as the architectural complexity is high enough (I guess we start from the tenths of thousands of lines?), surely there will be people who design better, safer and faster (and that will also learn faster). So they will be definitely recognizable (whether it's "2x", "10x" or "100x"). On the other hand, people with such skills very likely won't work on those systems :-) Einstein worked at a patent office, where he'd do in a short time what would require other clerks a full day of work. He was the equivalent of a "10x engineer"; he didn't work there for a very long time :-)