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Given that the project is funded by €10 billion of EU taxes, I hope we'll get transparency sooner rather than later on exactly what's gone wrong, regardless of

Given that the project is funded by €10 billion of EU taxes, I hope we'll get transparency sooner rather than later on exactly what's gone wrong, regardless of who it might embarrass.

rtkwe 7y ago
Like so? [0] Seems like they're still fixing it and it was in a pilot phase anyways. [0] https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/news/update-availability-some-galileo-initial-services https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/news/update-availability-...
- lallysingh 7y ago
  "Galileo provides ‘initial services’ since December 2016. During this initial "pilot" phase preceding the ‘full operational services’ phase, Galileo signals are used in combination with other satellite navigation systems, which allows for the detection of technical issues before the system becomes fully operational."
- aw3c2 7y ago
  No, that gives almost zero information as to the known cause: > A technical incident in the Galileo ground infrastructure is affecting the functioning of the Galileo system, as a result of which there is a temporary interruption of some of the Galileo initial services. > The cause of the technical incident is identified and recovery actions are implemented to ensure that the nominal service is resumed as soon as possible while safeguarding quality of the services.
  - reneberlin 7y ago
    To me that reads like: ransomware has hit our control center. Windows (tm)
the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
Considering they are running this as an early preview I'm not sure if we are going to get much in terms of public response. Maybe now that it's a long outage journalists will be poking enough. Pretty sure universities and other institutions would be able to inquire though.
mtgx 7y ago
If it costs that much you'd think they'd also offer encrypted GPS, too. They'll regret it eventually anyway.
- Dont_panic 7y ago
  Encrypted GPS do yu even make sense, what benefit an encrypted GPS will provide. Eu will know where were you when you requested something and even if your data was encrypted and i don't think you can intercept gps coordinates and you have to intercept at least three for it to be useful.
  - detaro 7y ago
    Yes, encrypted GPS makes sense. You can broadcast additional information that can be used for more precision only on encrypted channels, and have people pay for the decryption keys. (That's part of how the better-quality GPS for US military works) Another way is selling online access to better-quality correction data. Neither necessarily involves telling anyone where you are.
    - bluGill 7y ago
      Even the US military doesn't use the encryption channels much anymore. Turns out that differential GPS is more accurate and you don't even need the encryption channel to do it. We already know the next message the GPS will send with high accuracy, the important part is detecting exactly when the first bit arrives at the antenna you everything you need from that. If you want to get more accurate you don't use the encrypted channel you put a GPS in a fixed location on earth and have it send corrections to you. (called RTK) Edit: Note that I have no information on what the US military uses their classified channel for. It is unlikely they get any accuracy information from it anymore given what civilian GPS systems have figured out.
      - 420codebro 7y ago
        You couldn't be more wrong my lad. GPS is divided into two fundamental types of positioning services: 1) Precise Positioning Service (cool shit) 2) Standard Positioning Service (the shit you have access to) PPS (which is what the military uses) chirps at ten times the rate of SPS, eg for every 1 position update you get on SPS, you will get 10 from PPS in the same timeframe. Why is this useful? Imagine if you are flying 500mph... now maybe 2000mph.... yeah you get the idea. Yeah, you can use d-GPS to get really, really accurate resolution. But is it proven to work when I am dumping 5000 watts of jamming energy towards it? The reason the military will always have their own enciphered positioning data is they want to be able to shut off the public segment while still having their war-fighting capabilities. Also most GPS jamming stuff will target civilian frequencies - the target market.

Given that the project is funded by €10 billion of EU taxes, I hope we'll get transparency sooner rather than later on exactly what's gone wrong, regardless of who it might embarrass.

rtkwe 7y ago

Like so? [0] Seems like they're still fixing it and it was in a pilot phase anyways. [0] https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/news/update-availability-some-galileo-initial-services https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/news/update-availability-...

lallysingh 7y ago
"Galileo provides ‘initial services’ since December 2016. During this initial "pilot" phase preceding the ‘full operational services’ phase, Galileo signals are used in combination with other satellite navigation systems, which allows for the detection of technical issues before the system becomes fully operational."
aw3c2 7y ago
No, that gives almost zero information as to the known cause: > A technical incident in the Galileo ground infrastructure is affecting the functioning of the Galileo system, as a result of which there is a temporary interruption of some of the Galileo initial services. > The cause of the technical incident is identified and recovery actions are implemented to ensure that the nominal service is resumed as soon as possible while safeguarding quality of the services.
- reneberlin 7y ago
  To me that reads like: ransomware has hit our control center. Windows (tm)

the_mitsuhiko 7y ago

Considering they are running this as an early preview I'm not sure if we are going to get much in terms of public response. Maybe now that it's a long outage journalists will be poking enough. Pretty sure universities and other institutions would be able to inquire though.

mtgx 7y ago

If it costs that much you'd think they'd also offer encrypted GPS, too. They'll regret it eventually anyway.

Dont_panic 7y ago
Encrypted GPS do yu even make sense, what benefit an encrypted GPS will provide. Eu will know where were you when you requested something and even if your data was encrypted and i don't think you can intercept gps coordinates and you have to intercept at least three for it to be useful.
- detaro 7y ago
  Yes, encrypted GPS makes sense. You can broadcast additional information that can be used for more precision only on encrypted channels, and have people pay for the decryption keys. (That's part of how the better-quality GPS for US military works) Another way is selling online access to better-quality correction data. Neither necessarily involves telling anyone where you are.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    Even the US military doesn't use the encryption channels much anymore. Turns out that differential GPS is more accurate and you don't even need the encryption channel to do it. We already know the next message the GPS will send with high accuracy, the important part is detecting exactly when the first bit arrives at the antenna you everything you need from that. If you want to get more accurate you don't use the encrypted channel you put a GPS in a fixed location on earth and have it send corrections to you. (called RTK) Edit: Note that I have no information on what the US military uses their classified channel for. It is unlikely they get any accuracy information from it anymore given what civilian GPS systems have figured out.
    - 420codebro 7y ago
      You couldn't be more wrong my lad. GPS is divided into two fundamental types of positioning services: 1) Precise Positioning Service (cool shit) 2) Standard Positioning Service (the shit you have access to) PPS (which is what the military uses) chirps at ten times the rate of SPS, eg for every 1 position update you get on SPS, you will get 10 from PPS in the same timeframe. Why is this useful? Imagine if you are flying 500mph... now maybe 2000mph.... yeah you get the idea. Yeah, you can use d-GPS to get really, really accurate resolution. But is it proven to work when I am dumping 5000 watts of jamming energy towards it? The reason the military will always have their own enciphered positioning data is they want to be able to shut off the public segment while still having their war-fighting capabilities. Also most GPS jamming stuff will target civilian frequencies - the target market.