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So although everyone likes to believe google is a monopoly it’s far from it. You have choices- bing, biadu , yandex, DuckDuckGo... there is also nothing about

by taf2 7y ago

So although everyone likes to believe google is a monopoly it’s far from it. You have choices- bing, biadu , yandex, DuckDuckGo... there is also nothing about googles search position that prevents you from building a competitor. What we do have is peter thiel backing an administration that’s anti google, Russia, China that are anti google. Why? it’s a source of truth that challenges their lies. We also have an emergent anti ad - cult like backlash against personalized ads. So all of these factors combined and you get a lot of pressures mis information telling you google is evil. Additionally, karma , google led the charge against Microsoft with googles do no evil position against Microsoft- which did have an oem monopoly preventing others from competing. Anyways that is how I see it... so is google near to being a monopoly no I think they would need to be doing a lot worse things and there is room to compete and people should

ailideex 7y ago
> What we do have is peter thiel backing an administration that’s anti google, Russia, China that are anti google. Can you provide some context? Article does not mention Thiel, Russia or China.
- __s 7y ago
  Foreign propaganda usually doesn't label itself as such. Nor does this article have to be from such a source. Merely inspired by the noise being made
  - ailideex 7y ago
    Are you suggesting that we should discard criticism of google because Russia and China is anti google? China does not like Trump either, so should we not criticize trump because of China? And I don't even get why you say China and Russia is anti Google. They are anti-information more than anti-google. If google allows them to control what information people get they will have no problem with Google. They are further anti-west and are concerned that Google will play ball with western governments to give them access to Chinese and Russian data. Maybe I am missing what you mean by them being anti Google.
    - taf2 7y ago
      No - but I do think we should be sure we read deeper and question who's motivating a certain position. Ask is there a source of truth that can confirm someone's position. For example, I can see google's search business controls about 90% of the search traffic. I see browser usage around 63%. For advertising (google main source of income) I see they don't dominate they share market with Facebook and more recently a lot of talk about Amazon's position being strong to take more of that market. See: https://www.statista.com/chart/17109/us-digital-advertising-market-share/ https://www.statista.com/chart/17109/us-digital-advertising-... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/20/amazon-advertising-business-stealing-market-share-from-google.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/20/amazon-advertising-business-... That said maybe my sources are not good? But it's better to think is someone being truthful or trying to manipulate me with a specific position...
    - __s 7y ago
      I'm not suggesting that. Nor am I saying China & Russia are anti Google. I was only responding to why your statement "article doesn't mention X,Y,Z" was missing the mark on taf2's argument
celticmusic 7y ago
ah yes, the only reason you could ever have for being anti google, et al, is that you want to lie... You started with a decent premise, that google isn't an actual monopoly because it has "competitors" (and yes, those quotes are intentional). But then you go off the deep end and completely lost me to the point that I didn't even finish the entirety of your post. There are many many reasons that someone could be against google's absolute market dominance.
- taf2 7y ago
  Where do you see their absolute market dominance... I checked here for example http://gs.statcounter.com/ http://gs.statcounter.com/ and for browsers globally it's 63% that's not a monopoly... I checked here https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-share-of-search-engines/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-... for search engine and 90% is pretty close but it's not a monopoly... contrast that with MS in the late 90s according to https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsofts-market-share-drops-from-97-to-20-in-just-over-a-decade/#5361b19b51cf https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsof... and you have 97% that's a monopoly if it's abused which it was proven they did.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... again i find it interesting it's hard to talk about google being a monopoly and not mentioning MS...
  - celticmusic 7y ago
    Google doesn't have market dominance in the same way that Verizon doesn't have market dominance in a specific region because you can also get dialup. Technically correct, but not truthful.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    > or browsers globally it's 63% that's not a monopoly... You should look at markets, not globally. Google doesn't have a global monopoly (and likely never will because China, Russia won't allow their web to be controlled by a US company), but it has a monopoly in lots of markets (read: countries).
- 7y ago
phh 7y ago
Carousel requiring (severely favoring?) AMP, requiring exclusively Google javascript/ads is definitely Googling using their advanced user base on search to favor their ad business. They have already been condemned for their Google Shopping service for monopoly abuse on search.
- mtnGoat 7y ago
  condemned only in the EU and the solution that was created did NOT help the consumer.
rpiguy 7y ago
Google is a profit-seeking corporation that needs to expand into China to generate more money and bends the knee as much as it can to make inroads there. Far from being a source of truth they follow all Chinese censorship laws (why, because they would be blocked from operating there and unable to make money off of the Chinese). China likes everything about Google other than the fact that it is not a domestic corporation. A company does not need to be a monopoly to face Anti-trust measures made in the public interest. In the 90s you could have run Linux on a PC, installed Netscape on a PC, or bought a Mac, but Microsoft was still treated as a monopolist. The same with IBM in the 70s. There were at least five to ten other major suppliers of mainframes, but IBM was so dominant in the market that they were aggressively regulated for anti-trust. Google is not the victim of misinformation. Everyone is just starting to understand how important they are as the de facto gateway to information (regardless of choice) and mulling over the implications of it dominating add revenue, search, etc.
- sidibe 7y ago
  >Google is not the victim of misinformation. >Google is a profit-seeking corporation that needs to expand into China to generate more money and bends the knee as much as it can to make inroads there. Far from being a source of truth they follow all Chinese censorship laws (why, because they would be blocked from operating there and unable to make money off of the Chinese). China likes everything about Google other than the fact that it is not a domestic corporation. Whew the irony
  - rpiguy 7y ago
    You are of course right. While I stand by my assertion that they have tried to cowtow to China in order to get into the market, their services are blocked and China has resisted letting them back in. Their efforts are likely dead or stalled with the death of Dragonfly. In any case, major memory malfunction on my part, apologies.
- bduerst 7y ago
  I saw Peter Thiel on one of the networks this morning pushing this message. The problem with his message (and yours) is that Google doesn't work with the Chinese Government. Dragonfly was shut down, and for the most part, Google is not even available in China. Thiel's criticism was that because Google wasn't working with the U.S. Government, and was operating in China, that Google isn't patriotic. Not only is this rhetoric a false equivocation, but it's dangerously wrong.
gerash 7y ago
Peter thiel was recently speaking at a conservative whatever in DC spreading nonsense and creating a bogeyman out of Google (but not FB obviously). That they're working on some evil AI. Anyone actually working in the field knows how blown out of proportion and cringy this AI doomsday narrative is but people like thiel don't waste a chance. I'd like someone to tell his Republican audience (pardon the stereotyping) that he is homosexual and recently obtained a New Zealand citizenship just in case. Then watch how his audience reacts.
M2Ys4U 7y ago
Being a monopoly isn't actually the issue. Having a dominant market position is. This is where European competition law works well. Google definitely has a dominant market position.
- bduerst 7y ago
  EU antitrust law doesn't even require dominant market position to break the law.

by taf2 7y ago

ailideex 7y ago

> What we do have is peter thiel backing an administration that’s anti google, Russia, China that are anti google. Can you provide some context? Article does not mention Thiel, Russia or China.

__s 7y ago
Foreign propaganda usually doesn't label itself as such. Nor does this article have to be from such a source. Merely inspired by the noise being made
- ailideex 7y ago
  Are you suggesting that we should discard criticism of google because Russia and China is anti google? China does not like Trump either, so should we not criticize trump because of China? And I don't even get why you say China and Russia is anti Google. They are anti-information more than anti-google. If google allows them to control what information people get they will have no problem with Google. They are further anti-west and are concerned that Google will play ball with western governments to give them access to Chinese and Russian data. Maybe I am missing what you mean by them being anti Google.
  - taf2 7y ago
    No - but I do think we should be sure we read deeper and question who's motivating a certain position. Ask is there a source of truth that can confirm someone's position. For example, I can see google's search business controls about 90% of the search traffic. I see browser usage around 63%. For advertising (google main source of income) I see they don't dominate they share market with Facebook and more recently a lot of talk about Amazon's position being strong to take more of that market. See: https://www.statista.com/chart/17109/us-digital-advertising-market-share/ https://www.statista.com/chart/17109/us-digital-advertising-... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/20/amazon-advertising-business-stealing-market-share-from-google.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/20/amazon-advertising-business-... That said maybe my sources are not good? But it's better to think is someone being truthful or trying to manipulate me with a specific position...
  - __s 7y ago
    I'm not suggesting that. Nor am I saying China & Russia are anti Google. I was only responding to why your statement "article doesn't mention X,Y,Z" was missing the mark on taf2's argument

celticmusic 7y ago

ah yes, the only reason you could ever have for being anti google, et al, is that you want to lie... You started with a decent premise, that google isn't an actual monopoly because it has "competitors" (and yes, those quotes are intentional). But then you go off the deep end and completely lost me to the point that I didn't even finish the entirety of your post. There are many many reasons that someone could be against google's absolute market dominance.

taf2 7y ago
Where do you see their absolute market dominance... I checked here for example http://gs.statcounter.com/ http://gs.statcounter.com/ and for browsers globally it's 63% that's not a monopoly... I checked here https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-share-of-search-engines/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-... for search engine and 90% is pretty close but it's not a monopoly... contrast that with MS in the late 90s according to https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsofts-market-share-drops-from-97-to-20-in-just-over-a-decade/#5361b19b51cf https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsof... and you have 97% that's a monopoly if it's abused which it was proven they did.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... again i find it interesting it's hard to talk about google being a monopoly and not mentioning MS...
- celticmusic 7y ago
  Google doesn't have market dominance in the same way that Verizon doesn't have market dominance in a specific region because you can also get dialup. Technically correct, but not truthful.
- luckylion 7y ago
  > or browsers globally it's 63% that's not a monopoly... You should look at markets, not globally. Google doesn't have a global monopoly (and likely never will because China, Russia won't allow their web to be controlled by a US company), but it has a monopoly in lots of markets (read: countries).
7y ago

phh 7y ago

Carousel requiring (severely favoring?) AMP, requiring exclusively Google javascript/ads is definitely Googling using their advanced user base on search to favor their ad business. They have already been condemned for their Google Shopping service for monopoly abuse on search.

mtnGoat 7y ago
condemned only in the EU and the solution that was created did NOT help the consumer.

rpiguy 7y ago

Google is a profit-seeking corporation that needs to expand into China to generate more money and bends the knee as much as it can to make inroads there. Far from being a source of truth they follow all Chinese censorship laws (why, because they would be blocked from operating there and unable to make money off of the Chinese). China likes everything about Google other than the fact that it is not a domestic corporation. A company does not need to be a monopoly to face Anti-trust measures made in the public interest. In the 90s you could have run Linux on a PC, installed Netscape on a PC, or bought a Mac, but Microsoft was still treated as a monopolist. The same with IBM in the 70s. There were at least five to ten other major suppliers of mainframes, but IBM was so dominant in the market that they were aggressively regulated for anti-trust. Google is not the victim of misinformation. Everyone is just starting to understand how important they are as the de facto gateway to information (regardless of choice) and mulling over the implications of it dominating add revenue, search, etc.

sidibe 7y ago
>Google is not the victim of misinformation. >Google is a profit-seeking corporation that needs to expand into China to generate more money and bends the knee as much as it can to make inroads there. Far from being a source of truth they follow all Chinese censorship laws (why, because they would be blocked from operating there and unable to make money off of the Chinese). China likes everything about Google other than the fact that it is not a domestic corporation. Whew the irony
- rpiguy 7y ago
  You are of course right. While I stand by my assertion that they have tried to cowtow to China in order to get into the market, their services are blocked and China has resisted letting them back in. Their efforts are likely dead or stalled with the death of Dragonfly. In any case, major memory malfunction on my part, apologies.
bduerst 7y ago
I saw Peter Thiel on one of the networks this morning pushing this message. The problem with his message (and yours) is that Google doesn't work with the Chinese Government. Dragonfly was shut down, and for the most part, Google is not even available in China. Thiel's criticism was that because Google wasn't working with the U.S. Government, and was operating in China, that Google isn't patriotic. Not only is this rhetoric a false equivocation, but it's dangerously wrong.

gerash 7y ago

Peter thiel was recently speaking at a conservative whatever in DC spreading nonsense and creating a bogeyman out of Google (but not FB obviously). That they're working on some evil AI. Anyone actually working in the field knows how blown out of proportion and cringy this AI doomsday narrative is but people like thiel don't waste a chance. I'd like someone to tell his Republican audience (pardon the stereotyping) that he is homosexual and recently obtained a New Zealand citizenship just in case. Then watch how his audience reacts.

M2Ys4U 7y ago

Being a monopoly isn't actually the issue. Having a dominant market position is. This is where European competition law works well. Google definitely has a dominant market position.

bduerst 7y ago
EU antitrust law doesn't even require dominant market position to break the law.