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I totally agree with you. This is sad news for Stephen Hawking though because I'd be surprised if we still had physical cash in 50 years time.
by balzss 7y ago
I totally agree with you. This is sad news for Stephen Hawking though because I'd be surprised if we still had physical cash in 50 years time.
- cameronbrown 7y agoI _really_ hope you're wrong.
- marble-drink 7y agoThe wheels are already in motion. It's been that way for decades now. Look around you. The banks will start pushing even harder to get rid of physical currency soon. Except strong discouragement. You already can't do many things with physical currency. Like downloading music or films. This list will just keep growing until eventually physical currency just won't be accepted in most places. This is perfect for the banks.
- Angostura 7y agoExcept that Mark Carney has said very publicly that he sees absolutely no chance of physical cash going away.
- michaelt 7y agoNobody expects cash to vanish in the foreseeable timescale - but who knows what the situation will be in 30-50 years time? Credit cards as we know them today are barely that old. And with each series of UK banknote in circulation for ~14 years, planning to put someone on a note in 4 series time is pretty forward-looking :)
- yomly 7y ago30-50 years ago people still used shillings!
- tim333 7y agoThey'd probably keep it for old times sake and history even if it isn't used much.
- kristofferR 7y agoIt will be like paper maps and stamps, available yet only used by old people who grew up with it.
- hutzlibu 7y agoFor hiking tours, a printed map is way more comfortable for people to gather around and discuss the way. And it does not drain batterie ...
- silicon_wally 7y agobut a printed map is battered by the rain
- benj111 7y agoMap holders are a thing
- hutzlibu 7y agoClassical paper maps yes. I manage to trash them after one hike even without rain. But nowdays you get them coated in a plastic layer ... very nice, water proof and durable. edit: or like the othe commenter mentioned, it is not a plastic layer and rather plastic itself called Tyvek or similar
- PLenz 7y agoMost of my hiking maps are printed on Tyvek or the equivalent. And in any case a map is a piece of safety equipment - you spec if for the worst case scenario.
- arethuza 7y agoWell this old person has had to donate my backup paper maps to people whose phones were out of charge or who had no map at all and wanted to know where they were. NB When in Scottish mountains I take: - An iPhone with offline OS maps - An external battery for my iPhone and cable - A paper OS map in a waterproof map case - A printed A4 backup of an OS map in a plastic bag that I can give to others or to use if other maps become unusable (e.g. blown away - which has happened) 80% of the time I just use the iPhone - still have to use OS map and compass occasionally when things are particularly exciting.
- iamnotacrook 7y agoI wonder what Mark Carney would have said if you'd asked him in 1990 whether shops were going to go away because people would be buying (practically) everything on a phone in people's pocket which could communicate with literally every else's phone in their pocket anywhere in the world instantly? And what about cryptocurrencies. People are rubbish at predicting the future. Whether or not people's virtual cash valuation is going to continue to be represented by numbers on bits of paper and metal as opposed to numbers on computer databases seems like a yet more subtle idea to fail to fully grasp at the moment.
- goldfeld 7y agoShops aren't going away in all history to come and go. Some people and some cultures moreso actually understand what in life matters and some items will forever need physical fitting, thankfully for our raw three-dimensional reality. Cash won't ever be erased from Earth's surface not in a thousand reincarnarions, mark those words on the outer layers of your soul.
- ohso 7y agoI don't even carry cash around with me anymore everything is touch and go card payments which is really convenient. There are some down sides though in that now banks know exactly what you are spending your money on and stores are now facing increasing terminal fees from these transactions ( in Australia anyway).
- saiya-jin 7y agoDude where do you live or what kind of bubble do you surround yourself with? I can tell you that cash is still the king in Europe in many places. I don't mean the usual boring cycle of commute-work-lunch-work-bar/restaurant/cinema/shopping/etc., that obviously can be covered by card. But stepping outside of this, many places are cash-only. Small entrance fees, food stalls on the side of the road, ice cream shop etc. My car garage not doing credit-card payment for god knows why reason. Yes you can somehow get by and exist, but depriving yourself of many small and often wonderful experiences. Few banknotes don't take any space/weight anyway. Just to be clear - we talk about 2nd biggest city in Switzerland and life in and around it.
- nicoburns 7y agoIn the UK most of these smaller places got card machines with the rollout of contactless (which has lower fees), there are still some places that only accept cash, but it's not many anymore.
- martinald 7y agoI very rarely carry cash now. Very occasionally you get a place which is cash only, but in London at least there are vastly more places which are card only (small stalls etc which have a iPad EPOS and a card reader, which avoids the need to worry about cash being counted/stolen/paid into the bank).
- BozeWolf 7y agoDude, In which bubble do you live?;-) In the netherlands, (maestro) card payments are king. Currently in Denmark and last week in Sweden: (maestro) card payments. And in Sweden apps like Swish are really popular as well. (Pay to a phone number). Granted: germany and france are a bit behind in this.
- microcolonel 7y ago> Like downloading music or films. I mean, it's understandable that you don't want to be mailing banknotes to Google Play to get your copy of Despacito, but you can definitely buy credit with Google Play in cash (at least in Canada and the U.S.). Amazon, Apple, and a handful of others are much the same.
- wheninnorway 7y agoYou can buy Google Play credits, iTunes cards, Netflix cards in convenience stores in Norway. With cash.
- askorwegiansdo 7y agoThe only problem is that those top-up cards, as they are known, might be hard-locked to the EU region. Those gift cards tend to be region specific. I don't mean to spam but maybe European cards don't work in Cincinnati so to speak. Don't spend more than you can afford to immediately lose abroad. These Americans need a dictionary for everything, and that's why we love them. Imagine if the British imperial loss over in USA, was a British intelligence job. Owning you for decades you poor Americans. Edit: typo Fixed
- askorwegiansdo 7y agoWe wouldn't want to restage the tea party or baton Rogue fight over some ten dollar cards.
- apexalpha 7y agoOutside of the Western world it is common that when you order something online you can go to a bank or other place that has a reverse-atm (sort of) where you can pay for the order with the code you got in the email / webpage by inserting cash into the machine. This is often found in countries that don't have proper online payment infrastructures.
- FabHK 7y ago
- sealjam 7y agoAnecodatal but: In London there are already multiple shops/restaurants/bars that no longer accept cash.
- eatplayrove 7y agoSaw that recently in Copenhagen also.
- Symbiote 7y agoIt's only allowed in certain circumstances, although I don't know how well that's enforced -- some places are just very reluctant to take cash. https://www.thelocal.dk/20190227/danish-government-wants-to-allow-petrol-stations-stores-to-refuse-cash https://www.thelocal.dk/20190227/danish-government-wants-to-...
- iamphilrae 7y agoI bought a falafel wrap from a basic market stall the other day in London and they didn’t take cash at all. Makes sense- less germs, less chance of robbery, easier accounts, better chance of adhering to tax laws, and better convenience to me as a customer.
- benj111 7y ago"better chance of adhering to tax laws" That wouldn't be seen as an upside for the majority of small traders I've known. Plus its only convenient because you had the payment method they accepted.
- r3bl 7y agoI've seen the same in Amsterdam, but I believe it's important to understand why they do that. According to additional anecdotal evidence, no cash what so ever is their way of reducing the odds of a burglary. Within myriads of shops, one shop that doesn't offer cash payments is way less likely to be broken into.
- mruts 7y agoA little off topic but interesting point: In America restaurants must take cash but stores don’t. This is because once you’ve eaten you now owe a debt and cash must be accepted as payment for debts, as required by law. But if you are buying something you don’t have a debt yet, so they are free to turn you down. One way to get around this would be to eat your candy bar or whatever in the store. Now they must take your cash, or accept not getting paid I guess.
- kdmccormick 7y agoFrom a government or bank's point of view, I can see the incentives for phasing out physical currency. But for a common person, there are definitely uses: * Tipping, when you don't want your server to have to report the tip as taxable income * Buying/selling in places without reliable internet service * Buying/selling illegal items * Certain types of bars, etc. where it's logistically easier to use cash than handle a card + tipping on a receipt * Training yourself to be more frugal by restricting yourself to cash for shopping / eating, where the shock factor of "look how much I'm spending!" is more visceral * Giving to the visibly homeless * Buying lemonade from kids Also, I just like paying in cash sometimes. I'm hoping that the practical uses of it would create enough public outcry if banks/governments ever tried to phase it out.
- benbristow 7y agoBars that don't take card nowadays are often a bit shady. Especially those in busy city/town centres. Willing to bet not all of that money is declared to Mr Tax Man.
- xxs 7y agoFew notes: >Tipping, when you don't want your server to have to report the tip as taxable income; Certain types of bars, etc. where it's logistically easier to use cash than handle a card + tipping on a receipt The 1st option is clear tax evasion. Tipping is quite unpopular in Europe. When I tip I just leave a note after paying by card and that's that. Cards are immensely better when it comes to bars, restaurants, etc. (Actually they are better in almost any regard as losing them is rather fine, just get a new one from the bank) >Buying/selling in places without reliable internet service I can't think of a place w/o mobile internet, even mountain treks have decent internet.
- mgbmtl 7y agoAgreed. In some Canadian provinces, tipping is taxed. There is even a "minimum assumed tip" by the government, so restaurants can't declare having received $0. It's draconian, but it's a sector that has been caught again and again doing systemic tax evasion. Payment terminals have a tip $ or % option, which is more convenient than pen and paper which we often still see in the US. Unless it's a low-end restaurant, most restaurants in Canadian big cities pay well. There are huge staff shortages and lots of turnover because it's an exhausting and difficult job. re:Europe and Internet: Bavaria has pretty terrible service outside of towns.
- andygreenwell 7y agoMaybe, but having previously worked for a company that makes physical money, it's a healthy business they are in. There is more cash being printed now than ever before, the second derivative on the the amount of cash over time (d2Cash/dt2) is definitely positive. My personal opinion is that there will always be a need for physical analog money. The power goes out in Puerto Rico (hurricanes) and Manhattan (ConEdison) sometimes (just recapping the stories covered on NPR during my drive to work this morning).
- dahfizz 7y ago> ...the second derivative on the the amount of cash over time (d2Cash/dt2) is definitely positive. That's very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if the volume of physical cash is growing with a growing economy, but the fact that it's accelerating is unexpected. Do you have any links to learn more about this?
- saagarjha 7y ago> There is more cash being printed now than ever before, the second derivative on the the amount of cash over time (d2Cash/dt2) is definitely positive. Is inflation speeding up, or are notes just retired more often?
- 0003 7y agoIs this really true? At least in the US, I do not think the amount of cash (M0) is accelerating. Unless my reading of this is completely wrong: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BASE https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BASE That said the recession really throws this off.
- dragonwriter 7y ago> It's been that way for decades now. Given the glacial rate of change in the direction that the actors involve favor that indicates, that's not really an argument for the cash will be gone in 50 years argument so much as one against it.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ralphstodomingo 7y agoNo worries. After the period of "cashlessness", who knows? There might be some special material that can be a physical representation of digital currency, that can probably be modifiable remotely in value or appearance, which leads to the resurgence.
- elviejo79 7y agoTangem cards with a color eink display? Sounds about right. https://tangem.com https://tangem.com
- pmarreck 7y agoWhy do you want to preserve the exchange of little bits of paper that are merely currently difficult to counterfeit (and often still are), can burn up or get lost, can get easily stolen, wear down over time, take up space, and can be confiscated by unjust governments when their citizens try to flee? (Or in one case I worked around via cryptocurrency, when the government takes a 50% cut of all incoming donations?) Of all the expected paper eliminations to come, this is possibly the most important one... and the most important one to get right. (Why am I getting downvoted?)
- kristiandupont 7y agoI sold something online and was paid in cash a week ago. Since then I've tried paying with that cash in three places, all of them told me sorry, they don't take cash. This is in Copenhagen.
- jolmg 7y agoI would have expected there to be some kind of law against the refusal of a country's own currency's cash as form of payment in any transaction. Shouldn't a government ensure that its currency is always a valid/accepted form of payment within its borders?
- crooked-v 7y agoBroadly speaking, in most countries you're always required to accept legal tender for debts, but for up-front transactions you can limit what you accept to whatever you want, whether that be credit cards or live chickens.
- mkagenius 7y ago> told me sorry, they don't take cash. Such contrast, you will not hear this anywhere in India. (Reverse is quite regular)
- jgalt212 7y agoNYC, and other cities, have outlawed or are moving to outlaw cashless stores. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/privacy-and-data-security/nyc-pushing-ahead-with-cashless-retail-ban-joining-neighbors https://news.bloomberglaw.com/privacy-and-data-security/nyc-...
- Symbiote 7y agoI can't reliably search in Danish, but unless you're only spending the money at night, I think that's illegal. https://www.thelocal.dk/20190227/danish-government-wants-to-allow-petrol-stations-stores-to-refuse-cash https://www.thelocal.dk/20190227/danish-government-wants-to-...
- benj111 7y agoWe'll still have physical cash, it might be as useful as sovereigns and other 'collectible' coins the royal mint produces though. But then when was the last time you saw a £50 note?
- auggierose 7y agoLast time I won a poker tournament :-)
- goldfeld 7y agoMy currency is worth four times less than that but the last time I dealt with 50 bills was everyday since going bankrupt and out of the system.
- benj111 7y agoSorry to hear that. What are your thoughts on a cashless society, given your experience.
- goldfeld 7y agoIt sucks to have no banking service but since I barely have coin to spend anyway I adapted well. What I feel after accomodating lifestyle changes is liberation both in being out of the financial and the societal consumption values systems. I wish I could never use banking again, only pure dirty cash bills but it's nigh impossible to truly eschew the convenience and access of an international online purchase mediated by family and a credit card.
- gentaro 7y agoDon't worry, i'm sure someone will make a Hawking Coin.