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Credit scores? This is a fairly widely known fact that honestly shouldn’t need citations. There’s a reason banks secure credit cards from people with no credit

Credit scores? This is a fairly widely known fact that honestly shouldn’t need citations. There’s a reason banks secure credit cards from people with no credit history. There’s a reason insurance in Florida is different than the rest of the U.S. etc

URSpider94 7y ago
First off, credit scores don’t necessarily correlate directly to honesty, they correlate to likelihood to pay back a debt, which could be driven by unfortunate circumstances like a sudden medical expense or loss of a job. Someone who is hit by a car and spends six months in the hospital may have a crap credit score and still be an honest person. Second, the whole concept of “bad neighborhoods” where people aren’t trustworthy is partly a racist trope (there are good and bad people everywhere), and partly the result of generations of well-documented racist policies by the government and banks that prevented those areas from being developed. Third, nobody said the cars were getting stolen from “bad neighborhoods”. What the article says is that the vehicles were being driven to an area just outside of the Car2Go coverage area and dumped there.
- icxa 7y ago
  > the whole concept of “bad neighborhoods” where people aren’t trustworthy is partly a racist trope The concept of a "bad neighborhood" comes from crime statistics, not racist tropes. Either crime (theft, robbery, fraud, et all) is high, or it is not high, race be damned. Subscribers to a particular political ideology need to calm down with the whole "your facts/science are racist" bit, because it hurts everyone overall in the long run.
  - controlweather 7y ago
    You’re as dumb as god made you it seems. Some places have bad neighborhoods that are super white trash and have nothing to do with your self induced racist battle fantasies.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    The level of crime in an area correlates far more closely to poverty than race, so suggesting a bad neighbourhood is bad because of the race of people who live there rather than other factors probably is racist.
    - MrScruff 7y ago
      True but the first poster to mention race was the one bringing up the issue of racism.
    - Noumenon72 7y ago
      Given the extremely high correlation of crime to race, that seems unlikely. https://www.quora.com/Are-crime-rates-correlated-with-ethnicity-or-poverty/answers/86844434 https://www.quora.com/Are-crime-rates-correlated-with-ethnic...
      - inferiorhuman 7y ago
        Given the extremely high correlation of crime to race, that seems unlikely. Ouch man, you're not even going to try to dog whistle? From your link: As of 2003 West Virginia Blacks accounted for just 3.2% of the total population and 34.9% of the total prison population. Simply translated: White areas are safer areas. That is an irrefutable fact. The poverty argument, or excuse more accurately, can be torn to shreds time-after-time. There are so many conclusions being jumped to there that you've probably worn the mat out already. All of that racist bullshit completely ignores the disparities in enforcement, prosecution, and sentencing. As an added bonus it completely misinterprets how the FBI categories race. But hey, maybe you can get a good deal on a dog whistle for Prime Day.
        IvanDraga 7y ago
        Denial is strong in this one.
  - dogecoinbase 7y ago
    Systemic racism -> poverty -> crime. It's not complicated -- your facts are racist because they're facts about a racist system.
- dmix 7y ago
  > the whole concept of “bad neighborhoods” where people aren’t trustworthy is partly a racist trope There are plenty of "bad neighbourhoods" with white people and every nationality. These same bad neighbourhoods exist in UK, Canada, across Asia and Latin America, etc. It's quite rare to find any large urban area without one. It's a human problem not a race one and it's hardly a trope. It's very much real.
Spooky23 7y ago
Credit scores measure behavior, not your attributes. The issue here was fraud. My credit score doesn’t help you assess risk if someone else is impersonating me.
- barbecue_sauce 7y ago
  They also don't necessarily correlate correctly with behavior. If you actively avoid debt, for instance, you are essentially penalized with regard to credit score.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 7y ago
    That’s a feature, not a bug, the most profitable people are the ones that go into debt, never miss payments but also never pay it off.
    - rjf72 7y ago
      I've read this as the explanation multiple times, but I think there's an even more obvious explanation: people that go into debt, never miss repayments, and never pay it off are more likely to continue paying their debt off on time than somebody who never takes on or retains debt. As but one component to this a person who never takes on debt has, tautologically, managed to live a life without any need of debt. That implies he would have little difficulty continuing to live a life without access to credit. Because of this, he will generally have substantially less concern about his credit rating than a person who depends on credit for their basic livelihood.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    I'm not sure that doesn't correlate. If I avoid debt for a decade, suddenly seeking debt should be a bit of a red flag, and I should have a correspondingly low credit score.
    - barbecue_sauce 7y ago
      But the problem is credit scores are used as proxies for other purposes.
axaxs 7y ago
I'm generally with you until the end sentence. But, insurance in Florida is like insurance anywhere else, so not sure what you're alluding to...
- lettergram 7y ago
  I’m referring to the fact that Florida has much more expensive home insurance (and fewer home insurance companies) due to the risks associated with said region. A “neighborhood”, if you will (from the grand parent post). The insurance companies didn’t lower their standards, they offset their risks by charging more or being unavailable entirely.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    Does Florida even have any non taxpayer subsidized entities offering flood insurance for homes? I thought all coastal regions were subsidized by the National Flood Insurance Program.
    - axaxs 7y ago
      Ah..so I think I can answer this correctly as it's something I researched prior to moving here. So, if you are in a flood zone, you will be required to get flood insurance IF you mortgage your house, as the lender will require it. To my knowledge, it's very expensive and typically only one program exists (probably the one you are referring to). If you do not live in a flood zone, it varies a lot. Florida requires new homes to be built to appropriate hurricane proof codes since Andrew, so newer homes insurance are about like anywhere else in the nation. Older homes are somewhat more expensive, but usually not insane.

URSpider94 7y ago

First off, credit scores don’t necessarily correlate directly to honesty, they correlate to likelihood to pay back a debt, which could be driven by unfortunate circumstances like a sudden medical expense or loss of a job. Someone who is hit by a car and spends six months in the hospital may have a crap credit score and still be an honest person. Second, the whole concept of “bad neighborhoods” where people aren’t trustworthy is partly a racist trope (there are good and bad people everywhere), and partly the result of generations of well-documented racist policies by the government and banks that prevented those areas from being developed. Third, nobody said the cars were getting stolen from “bad neighborhoods”. What the article says is that the vehicles were being driven to an area just outside of the Car2Go coverage area and dumped there.

icxa 7y ago
> the whole concept of “bad neighborhoods” where people aren’t trustworthy is partly a racist trope The concept of a "bad neighborhood" comes from crime statistics, not racist tropes. Either crime (theft, robbery, fraud, et all) is high, or it is not high, race be damned. Subscribers to a particular political ideology need to calm down with the whole "your facts/science are racist" bit, because it hurts everyone overall in the long run.
- controlweather 7y ago
  You’re as dumb as god made you it seems. Some places have bad neighborhoods that are super white trash and have nothing to do with your self induced racist battle fantasies.
- onion2k 7y ago
  The level of crime in an area correlates far more closely to poverty than race, so suggesting a bad neighbourhood is bad because of the race of people who live there rather than other factors probably is racist.
  - MrScruff 7y ago
    True but the first poster to mention race was the one bringing up the issue of racism.
  - Noumenon72 7y ago
    Given the extremely high correlation of crime to race, that seems unlikely. https://www.quora.com/Are-crime-rates-correlated-with-ethnicity-or-poverty/answers/86844434 https://www.quora.com/Are-crime-rates-correlated-with-ethnic...
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      Given the extremely high correlation of crime to race, that seems unlikely. Ouch man, you're not even going to try to dog whistle? From your link: As of 2003 West Virginia Blacks accounted for just 3.2% of the total population and 34.9% of the total prison population. Simply translated: White areas are safer areas. That is an irrefutable fact. The poverty argument, or excuse more accurately, can be torn to shreds time-after-time. There are so many conclusions being jumped to there that you've probably worn the mat out already. All of that racist bullshit completely ignores the disparities in enforcement, prosecution, and sentencing. As an added bonus it completely misinterprets how the FBI categories race. But hey, maybe you can get a good deal on a dog whistle for Prime Day.
      - IvanDraga 7y ago
        Denial is strong in this one.
- dogecoinbase 7y ago
  Systemic racism -> poverty -> crime. It's not complicated -- your facts are racist because they're facts about a racist system.
dmix 7y ago
> the whole concept of “bad neighborhoods” where people aren’t trustworthy is partly a racist trope There are plenty of "bad neighbourhoods" with white people and every nationality. These same bad neighbourhoods exist in UK, Canada, across Asia and Latin America, etc. It's quite rare to find any large urban area without one. It's a human problem not a race one and it's hardly a trope. It's very much real.

Spooky23 7y ago

Credit scores measure behavior, not your attributes. The issue here was fraud. My credit score doesn’t help you assess risk if someone else is impersonating me.

barbecue_sauce 7y ago
They also don't necessarily correlate correctly with behavior. If you actively avoid debt, for instance, you are essentially penalized with regard to credit score.
- fiddlerwoaroof 7y ago
  That’s a feature, not a bug, the most profitable people are the ones that go into debt, never miss payments but also never pay it off.
  - rjf72 7y ago
    I've read this as the explanation multiple times, but I think there's an even more obvious explanation: people that go into debt, never miss repayments, and never pay it off are more likely to continue paying their debt off on time than somebody who never takes on or retains debt. As but one component to this a person who never takes on debt has, tautologically, managed to live a life without any need of debt. That implies he would have little difficulty continuing to live a life without access to credit. Because of this, he will generally have substantially less concern about his credit rating than a person who depends on credit for their basic livelihood.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  I'm not sure that doesn't correlate. If I avoid debt for a decade, suddenly seeking debt should be a bit of a red flag, and I should have a correspondingly low credit score.
  - barbecue_sauce 7y ago
    But the problem is credit scores are used as proxies for other purposes.

axaxs 7y ago

I'm generally with you until the end sentence. But, insurance in Florida is like insurance anywhere else, so not sure what you're alluding to...

lettergram 7y ago
I’m referring to the fact that Florida has much more expensive home insurance (and fewer home insurance companies) due to the risks associated with said region. A “neighborhood”, if you will (from the grand parent post). The insurance companies didn’t lower their standards, they offset their risks by charging more or being unavailable entirely.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Does Florida even have any non taxpayer subsidized entities offering flood insurance for homes? I thought all coastal regions were subsidized by the National Flood Insurance Program.
  - axaxs 7y ago
    Ah..so I think I can answer this correctly as it's something I researched prior to moving here. So, if you are in a flood zone, you will be required to get flood insurance IF you mortgage your house, as the lender will require it. To my knowledge, it's very expensive and typically only one program exists (probably the one you are referring to). If you do not live in a flood zone, it varies a lot. Florida requires new homes to be built to appropriate hurricane proof codes since Andrew, so newer homes insurance are about like anywhere else in the nation. Older homes are somewhat more expensive, but usually not insane.