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'What individualism has bought us is not the end of servitude, but merely the cloaking of masters.' A really provocative and intriguing article. I'm not sure i

'What individualism has bought us is not the end of servitude, but merely the cloaking of masters.' A really provocative and intriguing article. I'm not sure if I agree with all of it, but I do notice that some Americans are myopic to any description of freedom that cannot be expressed as an arrangement between two supposedly free economic actors. For example, some Americans are particularly resistant to describing the relationship between a boss and his or her subordinates as inequitable and potentially exploitative, even though a boss can sometimes exert more control over an employee's life than the state can.

whatshisface 7y ago
You can change your boss, unless there's something seriously wrong with the local labor market. Your boss' highest threat? They can change you. Unless you are a farmhand in the middle of the Great Depression that's pretty fair.
- frgtpsswrdlame 7y ago
  The ability to move between lots of autocratic states wouldn't be seen as freedom. The most probable result of your decision to move around in the local labor market is that you just end up under another boss who restricts your freedom.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    I'm not sure how you would enforce freedom of movement if every country in the world was autocratic, but if that happened somehow then one of the countries could simply become free and take all of the best people from every other country. Sure if every employer was wordlessly conspiring to torture their employees for no reason things would be pretty bad, but that's not what happens.
    - newen 7y ago
      You're making it sound a lot nicer than it actually is. Few issues are: you don't know if you're going to get a good boss before accepting the job, your boss can change attitude with no notice, power dynamics are impossible to ignore, your boss can fire you for no reason much of the the US, very difficult to know company culture without knowing insiders, you get fired and your life becomes significantly more difficult while your employer is mildly inconvenienced.
- girvo 7y ago
  The business is unlikely to be in existential danger if they change you; your life however, is in danger of ruin if you don't take that job right now; this is inherently exploitative, in terms of power dynamics. The consequences for each party are not the same. They never will be, either.

whatshisface 7y ago

You can change your boss, unless there's something seriously wrong with the local labor market. Your boss' highest threat? They can change you. Unless you are a farmhand in the middle of the Great Depression that's pretty fair.

frgtpsswrdlame 7y ago
The ability to move between lots of autocratic states wouldn't be seen as freedom. The most probable result of your decision to move around in the local labor market is that you just end up under another boss who restricts your freedom.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  I'm not sure how you would enforce freedom of movement if every country in the world was autocratic, but if that happened somehow then one of the countries could simply become free and take all of the best people from every other country. Sure if every employer was wordlessly conspiring to torture their employees for no reason things would be pretty bad, but that's not what happens.
  - newen 7y ago
    You're making it sound a lot nicer than it actually is. Few issues are: you don't know if you're going to get a good boss before accepting the job, your boss can change attitude with no notice, power dynamics are impossible to ignore, your boss can fire you for no reason much of the the US, very difficult to know company culture without knowing insiders, you get fired and your life becomes significantly more difficult while your employer is mildly inconvenienced.
girvo 7y ago
The business is unlikely to be in existential danger if they change you; your life however, is in danger of ruin if you don't take that job right now; this is inherently exploitative, in terms of power dynamics. The consequences for each party are not the same. They never will be, either.