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I'm not envious of people like that - they are still corporate slaves, working on other people's ideas, trading all their time for a little bit of extra money.

I'm not envious of people like that - they are still corporate slaves, working on other people's ideas, trading all their time for a little bit of extra money. The praise/acclaim they are getting is so bosses/society can exploit them better. The difference between $80k or $200k salary makes almost no difference in quality of life. The $200k dev is often more stressed and not as happy as they look on the outside. Most are keeping up a facade. The only people I would feel envy towards are people who have both time and money, and could do whatever they want (fuck you money). Especially depressing is reading IndieHackers, because it seems like everyone there just tests out some idea, then suddenly they're making $35k MRR. But even those people I'm not envious. Most of the time I realize that their idea wouldn't be something I'm passionate about, and even when it's a similar product to mine it wouldn't be built how I would choose to build it. Even if I was rich I would be building my projects - and that's what I enjoy, so the journey is more important than the end result.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
>The difference between $80k or $200k salary makes almost no difference in quality of life. I don’t see how this is true for any urban area, where $80k will not let you save any significant amount whereas $200k will provide you a decent cushion in case your incoming cash flow experiences turbulence. The peace of mind resulting from this certainly improves quality of life, especially if you have mouths to feed. Also, at $200k you can save enough to start investing in equity, and make real wealth gains as opposed to the pittance earned by way of wages for labor.
- jkaplowitz 7y ago
  Hello from Montreal, where everything you said is true for either dollar amount, even in Canadian dollars. And indeed, tech salaries in that range are plenty available here. The low end of tech salaries is below $80k, but the threshold where things start getting tight is also below $80k, so no problem. (Of course $200k will allow faster growth of savings and investment or a more luxurious lifestyle, but even $80k can work here for comfortable middle-class living.)
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    I guess I should clarify that my perspective is from US urban areas, and the single biggest risk people in the US face is having a health issue which forces you to not be able to work, and deal with extremely high medical care costs. For me, comfortable middle class living does not just include the food/shelter you need, but also protection from volatility such as changes in labor market, your family members’ health, and ability to take leave from work. As the US doesn’t provide any of this, you have to pay for it, in the form of savings and investments for yourself. The other component of it is that in my lifetime, the income/wealth gap has grown and grown. Opportunities for your children decrease if you don’t stay ahead of the curve, so this is also another risk to protect against by earning enough to be able to live in the better school districts and provide your kids with a better shot of income stability for their future.
b_tterc_p 7y ago
It sounds to me like you’re assuming that one path to happiness is best and because of that, are missing the fact that many people are happy with their jobs and lives. I don’t think the journey is more important than the end here. “The end” is being happy. If you can simply exist and be happy, that’s going to be more satisfying than aggressively pursuing the path you believe leads to happiness. Looking at happy people and telling yourself it’s a facade is a really bad idea.
- halfjoking 7y ago
  You're right that some people are genuinely happy with their jobs/lives working for someone else. Actually that might be the vast majority of people. That's not for me though - like I said if I was rich I'd still be working 60+ hour weeks. I think other people would spend more time with family/friends in that scenario?

lotsofpulp 7y ago

>The difference between $80k or $200k salary makes almost no difference in quality of life. I don’t see how this is true for any urban area, where $80k will not let you save any significant amount whereas $200k will provide you a decent cushion in case your incoming cash flow experiences turbulence. The peace of mind resulting from this certainly improves quality of life, especially if you have mouths to feed. Also, at $200k you can save enough to start investing in equity, and make real wealth gains as opposed to the pittance earned by way of wages for labor.

jkaplowitz 7y ago
Hello from Montreal, where everything you said is true for either dollar amount, even in Canadian dollars. And indeed, tech salaries in that range are plenty available here. The low end of tech salaries is below $80k, but the threshold where things start getting tight is also below $80k, so no problem. (Of course $200k will allow faster growth of savings and investment or a more luxurious lifestyle, but even $80k can work here for comfortable middle-class living.)
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  I guess I should clarify that my perspective is from US urban areas, and the single biggest risk people in the US face is having a health issue which forces you to not be able to work, and deal with extremely high medical care costs. For me, comfortable middle class living does not just include the food/shelter you need, but also protection from volatility such as changes in labor market, your family members’ health, and ability to take leave from work. As the US doesn’t provide any of this, you have to pay for it, in the form of savings and investments for yourself. The other component of it is that in my lifetime, the income/wealth gap has grown and grown. Opportunities for your children decrease if you don’t stay ahead of the curve, so this is also another risk to protect against by earning enough to be able to live in the better school districts and provide your kids with a better shot of income stability for their future.

b_tterc_p 7y ago

It sounds to me like you’re assuming that one path to happiness is best and because of that, are missing the fact that many people are happy with their jobs and lives. I don’t think the journey is more important than the end here. “The end” is being happy. If you can simply exist and be happy, that’s going to be more satisfying than aggressively pursuing the path you believe leads to happiness. Looking at happy people and telling yourself it’s a facade is a really bad idea.

halfjoking 7y ago
You're right that some people are genuinely happy with their jobs/lives working for someone else. Actually that might be the vast majority of people. That's not for me though - like I said if I was rich I'd still be working 60+ hour weeks. I think other people would spend more time with family/friends in that scenario?