4 ms·

This is a solid observation. I made a personal decision sometime in my late 20s to never do anything for money that I wouldn't also be willing to do for free. A

by c22 7y ago

This is a solid observation. I made a personal decision sometime in my late 20s to never do anything for money that I wouldn't also be willing to do for free. As a result of this decision I make a lot less money than many of my peers, but I'm always working on projects I'm excited about and I have more free time than most of the people I know. If anything, like you, I feel sorry for the people I see working all the time, always stressed, alienated from their families, and often using unhealthy habits to cope. You can buy a lot of stuff with money, but you can't take it with you when you die. I prefer to optimize for moments of contentment.

andreilys 7y ago
Money buys freedom from wage slavery.
- c22 7y ago
  At a certain point, sure, but statistically you're unlikely to get there through wage slavery. Anyway, there are other ways to gain that freedom.
  - balfirevic 7y ago
    > Anyway, there are other ways to gain that freedom. What ways do you have in mind?
- mikekchar 7y ago
  There was a cool article I saw quite a while ago where a father of 2 and sole provider for his family found that it was next to impossible to survive comfortably in London on half a million GBP per year. He went through all the numbers and showed how it just couldn't be done. Of course he was making 10x what would be considered a good wage in London. It wasn't his salary, it was his minimum standard that was out of whack. The best part of the article was that it wasn't dead pan humour -- he was just clueless. There is a certain minimum amount of money you need to be comfortable. How much money that is depends a lot on where you live, but it also depends a lot on your values. There isn't one point where you can choose to be free -- there are several and some of them are surprisingly low, monetarily. Most people choose not to be free. It's very interesting.
  - alltakendamned 7y ago
    If you can find back the link, I'd like to read this
    - mikekchar 7y ago
      Looking for it. BTW... I am never going back to Huffington Post. Wow... the "privacy controls" are sooooo broken.... Sorry. Can't find it. It was really interesting, though. I found a similar article here: $500K and scraping by - https://www.financialsamurai.com/scraping-by-on-500000-a-year-high-income-earners-struggling/ https://www.financialsamurai.com/scraping-by-on-500000-a-yea... It's interesting how they justify $23K a year for food for a family of 4. But the thing is, I know lots of people who spend that kind of money on food and can't imagine being able to spend less.
      - celticmusic 7y ago
        Food is one of those areas where I definitely spend more, but It's also a conscious decision. I grew up extremely poor, so being able to eat well is something I 100% find worthwhile.
      - GFischer 7y ago
        You have the other extreme, Mr Money Moustache who claims to feed a family of 4 on about 300 dollars a month: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/29/killing-your-1000-grocery-bill/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/29/killing-your-1000... of course, that´s a lot of rice, noodles and beans (not that there´s anything bad with those, but I´d get bored).
        tonyedgecombe 7y ago
        Healthy though, variety in your food does tend to increase the number of calories you consume.
        mikekchar 7y ago
- CalRobert 7y ago
  It sure does. Which is why I try to spend it on things I care about, and not things my (landlord, student/car/mortgage debt servicer), etc. cares about. It's easier to not spend a million bucks than to make a million bucks. I love cities and fine food, but eventually I realized how much I was paying for the privilege and decided I wanted out. A cheap house and a garden go a long ways.
- rofo1 7y ago
  In theory, agreed, but just about everyone I know spend their money in a way that multiplies their "wage slavery".
balfirevic 7y ago
> I made a personal decision sometime in my late 20s to never do anything for money that I wouldn't also be willing to do for free Unfortunately, for me and for a lot of people, I don't think there is an intersection of things I would be willing to do for free and that can make decent money (or livable money, for that matter). > You can buy a lot of stuff with money, but you can't take it with you when you die. Well, you can't take anything with you when you die :)
- kazinator 7y ago
  What? I thought there was an exception: that you can take the sources for your compiler with you; just not things like money and cars. Shit!
badpun 7y ago
Can you give a few examples of things that companies pay you to do that you would still do if unpaid?
- c22 7y ago
  Sure. Right now I manage a hacker space for way less than the "market rate" for my responsibilities. I am also working as a freelancer on a handful of software projects. Currently all of my employers are non-profits so the pay is lower than in the profit-focused sphere, but the projects are ones I support ideologically and the problems I am solving are interesting to me. In the past I've done work as a handyman and I made a point of not accepting jobs that I felt would stress me out or involve a lot of tedium.

by c22 7y ago

andreilys 7y ago

Money buys freedom from wage slavery.

c22 7y ago
At a certain point, sure, but statistically you're unlikely to get there through wage slavery. Anyway, there are other ways to gain that freedom.
- balfirevic 7y ago
  > Anyway, there are other ways to gain that freedom. What ways do you have in mind?
mikekchar 7y ago
There was a cool article I saw quite a while ago where a father of 2 and sole provider for his family found that it was next to impossible to survive comfortably in London on half a million GBP per year. He went through all the numbers and showed how it just couldn't be done. Of course he was making 10x what would be considered a good wage in London. It wasn't his salary, it was his minimum standard that was out of whack. The best part of the article was that it wasn't dead pan humour -- he was just clueless. There is a certain minimum amount of money you need to be comfortable. How much money that is depends a lot on where you live, but it also depends a lot on your values. There isn't one point where you can choose to be free -- there are several and some of them are surprisingly low, monetarily. Most people choose not to be free. It's very interesting.
- alltakendamned 7y ago
  If you can find back the link, I'd like to read this
  - mikekchar 7y ago
    Looking for it. BTW... I am never going back to Huffington Post. Wow... the "privacy controls" are sooooo broken.... Sorry. Can't find it. It was really interesting, though. I found a similar article here: $500K and scraping by - https://www.financialsamurai.com/scraping-by-on-500000-a-year-high-income-earners-struggling/ https://www.financialsamurai.com/scraping-by-on-500000-a-yea... It's interesting how they justify $23K a year for food for a family of 4. But the thing is, I know lots of people who spend that kind of money on food and can't imagine being able to spend less.
    - celticmusic 7y ago
      Food is one of those areas where I definitely spend more, but It's also a conscious decision. I grew up extremely poor, so being able to eat well is something I 100% find worthwhile.
    - GFischer 7y ago
      You have the other extreme, Mr Money Moustache who claims to feed a family of 4 on about 300 dollars a month: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/29/killing-your-1000-grocery-bill/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/29/killing-your-1000... of course, that´s a lot of rice, noodles and beans (not that there´s anything bad with those, but I´d get bored).
      - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
        Healthy though, variety in your food does tend to increase the number of calories you consume.
        mikekchar 7y ago
CalRobert 7y ago
It sure does. Which is why I try to spend it on things I care about, and not things my (landlord, student/car/mortgage debt servicer), etc. cares about. It's easier to not spend a million bucks than to make a million bucks. I love cities and fine food, but eventually I realized how much I was paying for the privilege and decided I wanted out. A cheap house and a garden go a long ways.
rofo1 7y ago
In theory, agreed, but just about everyone I know spend their money in a way that multiplies their "wage slavery".

balfirevic 7y ago

> I made a personal decision sometime in my late 20s to never do anything for money that I wouldn't also be willing to do for free Unfortunately, for me and for a lot of people, I don't think there is an intersection of things I would be willing to do for free and that can make decent money (or livable money, for that matter). > You can buy a lot of stuff with money, but you can't take it with you when you die. Well, you can't take anything with you when you die :)

kazinator 7y ago
What? I thought there was an exception: that you can take the sources for your compiler with you; just not things like money and cars. Shit!

badpun 7y ago

Can you give a few examples of things that companies pay you to do that you would still do if unpaid?

c22 7y ago
Sure. Right now I manage a hacker space for way less than the "market rate" for my responsibilities. I am also working as a freelancer on a handful of software projects. Currently all of my employers are non-profits so the pay is lower than in the profit-focused sphere, but the projects are ones I support ideologically and the problems I am solving are interesting to me. In the past I've done work as a handyman and I made a point of not accepting jobs that I felt would stress me out or involve a lot of tedium.