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Sorry but that is just not true. Vaccine use applies the same selection pressures as [people existing and having immune systems]. The things you are comparing a

Sorry but that is just not true. Vaccine use applies the same selection pressures as [people existing and having immune systems]. The things you are comparing are totally different and not comparable.

spraak 7y ago
So, I'm risking sounding like a fringe anti-vaxxer here, but no, vaccine use does not apply the same selection pressure, because we know that vaccines wane, but generally speaking, acquired immunity is for a lifetime. Also, there are different types of vaccines - some target bacterial infections such as pertussis, while others target viruses. Here's an example of pertussis adapting to the vaccine use [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11485646 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11485646 > In the Netherlands, as in many other western countries, pertussis vaccines have been used extensively for more than 40 years. Therefore, it is conceivable that vaccine-induced immunity has affected the evolution of Bordetella pertussis. Consistent with this notion, pertussis has reemerged in the Netherlands, despite high vaccination coverage. Further, a notable change in the population structure of B. pertussis was observed in the Netherlands subsequent to the introduction of vaccination in the 1950s. Finally, we observed antigenic divergence between clinical isolates and vaccine strains, in particular with respect to the surface-associated proteins pertactin and pertussis toxin. Adaptation may have allowed B. pertussis to remain endemic despite widespread vaccination and may have contributed to the reemergence of pertussis in the Netherlands.
- arkades 7y ago
  Because pertussis vaccine targets a specific, purified protein from the target microbe (that is, a fairly non-conserved element, that is fairly small and provides fewer targets for variation in Ab targets). Most vaccines don't do this, and none of the new vaccines under development do this (that I am aware of, admittedly.) It's historical inertia at this point. But going back at least as far as "since when I was a kid" it's a fundamental point of vaccine design that you aim for things that the microbe has a difficult time evolving away from (highly conserved molecules), and that offers multiple antigen targets. I can't say that's never deviated from - not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good and what-have-you - but it's the norm.
- rscho 7y ago
  Pertussis vaccine is notably unreliable. About 60% efficiency. This is well known and has been for decades.

spraak 7y ago

So, I'm risking sounding like a fringe anti-vaxxer here, but no, vaccine use does not apply the same selection pressure, because we know that vaccines wane, but generally speaking, acquired immunity is for a lifetime. Also, there are different types of vaccines - some target bacterial infections such as pertussis, while others target viruses. Here's an example of pertussis adapting to the vaccine use [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11485646 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11485646 > In the Netherlands, as in many other western countries, pertussis vaccines have been used extensively for more than 40 years. Therefore, it is conceivable that vaccine-induced immunity has affected the evolution of Bordetella pertussis. Consistent with this notion, pertussis has reemerged in the Netherlands, despite high vaccination coverage. Further, a notable change in the population structure of B. pertussis was observed in the Netherlands subsequent to the introduction of vaccination in the 1950s. Finally, we observed antigenic divergence between clinical isolates and vaccine strains, in particular with respect to the surface-associated proteins pertactin and pertussis toxin. Adaptation may have allowed B. pertussis to remain endemic despite widespread vaccination and may have contributed to the reemergence of pertussis in the Netherlands.

arkades 7y ago
Because pertussis vaccine targets a specific, purified protein from the target microbe (that is, a fairly non-conserved element, that is fairly small and provides fewer targets for variation in Ab targets). Most vaccines don't do this, and none of the new vaccines under development do this (that I am aware of, admittedly.) It's historical inertia at this point. But going back at least as far as "since when I was a kid" it's a fundamental point of vaccine design that you aim for things that the microbe has a difficult time evolving away from (highly conserved molecules), and that offers multiple antigen targets. I can't say that's never deviated from - not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good and what-have-you - but it's the norm.
rscho 7y ago
Pertussis vaccine is notably unreliable. About 60% efficiency. This is well known and has been for decades.