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By tool I mean something more than a language. Something like a proof assistant, but more visual: it would show the different "views" (parts) of the already pro

by pezo1919 7y ago

By tool I mean something more than a language. Something like a proof assistant, but more visual: it would show the different "views" (parts) of the already provided code, let the user to focus on just arbitrary parts, but at any time switch back to the whole picture. I don't know much about proof assistants but I did not see how someone can force the assistant to focus only on particular parts and save these parts for later time. There might be multiple holes in the implementation and I would like to study them sometimes together but sometimes separately.

akkartik 7y ago
I understand it's something beyond a language. But surely it has to make some assumptions about the stack it relies on? If such a tool existed but required you to switch to a whole new language, would that be acceptable? What if you had to switch to a whole new programming model? What if you couldn't benefit from any of the software written by others in mainstream platforms? In any case, I think you'll enjoy hanging out at https://futureofcoding.org/slack-readme https://futureofcoding.org/slack-readme where people often chat about different parts of this (huge) open problem. I do.
- jnbiche 7y ago
  Cool group. I'm already enjoying the podcasts (and kudos for having transcripts available, as well).
- pezo1919 7y ago
  Yes sure! I did not mean the tool should exist independently, I meant some kind of extra IDE "layer" beside a "regular"/widespread (C,Java,C#) compiler/language. But ofc there is no such thing like "regular" compiler/language That group seems really cool! Thanks!
  - akkartik 7y ago
    Ok, to answer your question I don't think mainstream languages like C/Java/C# will ever gain the tools to do what you want. You have to start from scratch. (Like many others in that group, I'm trying to start from scratch: https://github.com/akkartik/mu/blob/master/subx/Readme.md https://github.com/akkartik/mu/blob/master/subx/Readme.md. My focus isn't directly on the tools you describe. But hopefully it'll one day be closer to the main trunk of evolution rather than the dead end the current mainstream seems to be. And it will support a more flexible software stack that can adopt such tools.)
- stevekrouse 7y ago
  Thanks for pointer!
jnbiche 7y ago
How could something like you describe be language independent? Any possible implementation I can think of would have to be integrated with the language, specifically the type system. Edit: I should specify: within the constraints of today's language technology, it's hard for me to imagine a language-independent implementation. It's entirely possible things will be different 100 years from now, although for various reasons I'm skeptical.
- pezo1919 7y ago
  Yes sure! I did not mean the tool should exist independently, I meant some kind of extra IDE "layer" beside a "regular"/widespread (C,Java,C#) compiler/language. But ofc there is no such thing like "regular" compiler/language

akkartik 7y ago

I understand it's something beyond a language. But surely it has to make some assumptions about the stack it relies on? If such a tool existed but required you to switch to a whole new language, would that be acceptable? What if you had to switch to a whole new programming model? What if you couldn't benefit from any of the software written by others in mainstream platforms? In any case, I think you'll enjoy hanging out at https://futureofcoding.org/slack-readme https://futureofcoding.org/slack-readme where people often chat about different parts of this (huge) open problem. I do.

jnbiche 7y ago
Cool group. I'm already enjoying the podcasts (and kudos for having transcripts available, as well).
pezo1919 7y ago
Yes sure! I did not mean the tool should exist independently, I meant some kind of extra IDE "layer" beside a "regular"/widespread (C,Java,C#) compiler/language. But ofc there is no such thing like "regular" compiler/language That group seems really cool! Thanks!
- akkartik 7y ago
  Ok, to answer your question I don't think mainstream languages like C/Java/C# will ever gain the tools to do what you want. You have to start from scratch. (Like many others in that group, I'm trying to start from scratch: https://github.com/akkartik/mu/blob/master/subx/Readme.md https://github.com/akkartik/mu/blob/master/subx/Readme.md. My focus isn't directly on the tools you describe. But hopefully it'll one day be closer to the main trunk of evolution rather than the dead end the current mainstream seems to be. And it will support a more flexible software stack that can adopt such tools.)
stevekrouse 7y ago
Thanks for pointer!

jnbiche 7y ago

How could something like you describe be language independent? Any possible implementation I can think of would have to be integrated with the language, specifically the type system. Edit: I should specify: within the constraints of today's language technology, it's hard for me to imagine a language-independent implementation. It's entirely possible things will be different 100 years from now, although for various reasons I'm skeptical.

pezo1919 7y ago
Yes sure! I did not mean the tool should exist independently, I meant some kind of extra IDE "layer" beside a "regular"/widespread (C,Java,C#) compiler/language. But ofc there is no such thing like "regular" compiler/language