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What is so scary with open carry? We have policemen that open carry in every country, are they not scary? We are talking about humans with guns, not about Batma

What is so scary with open carry? We have policemen that open carry in every country, are they not scary? We are talking about humans with guns, not about Batmans and Jokers.

Retric 7y ago
People with guns are significantly more likely and capable to commit crimes. Open carry in many social circles is like walking around in prison tattoos. Source: http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/jpj_firearm_ownership.pdf http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/jpj_firearm_owner... As this study points out no database of US gun ownership exists, which makes these studies harder to carry out. PS: Police are also a surprisingly violent group. Still unlikely to randomly shoot someone, but as a rational risk assessment they rate much higher than many groups like young kids.
- AdrianB1 7y ago
  People with penis are significantly more likely and capable of committing rape. They are everywhere!!! This is how your argument reads to me. Disclaimer: I live in a country with very strict gun control laws (East European, former Communist block. This is how they implemented it.)
  - Retric 7y ago
    I am talking about why people might be uncomfortable not nessisarily about changing the law. I got plenty of negative responses as a tall and very strong young man. That bothered me even if I understood the reasons for it. People react negatively to guns and physical fitness for rational reasons. I might like shooting and being physically strong, but that’s no reason to discount reality.
- masonic 7y ago
  People with guns are significantly *more likely* and capable to commit crimes That is not at all what that paper actually says.
  - Retric 7y ago
    “The results of this study suggest that a decrease in prevalence of firearms has the potential to decrease violent crime in the United States.” and it’s including quotes like that the common saying “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” should be amended to “guns don’t kill people, they just make it real easy.” Also, “In 2008, 67% of all homicides involved the use of a handgun, shotgun, rifle, and other firearms (Vito & Maahs, 2012).” Which is much higher than their normal prevalence among the general population. “Azrael, barnett, and Miller (2004) estimated that about 40% of households in the United States own at least one firearm.” With 67% being much larger than 40%. In what what does that disagree with what I said?
    - masonic 7y ago
      None of it agrees with what you claimed. These are all different metrics you are trying to conflate into what you want them to say. Homicide is a tiny percentage of overall crime. People who are legally eligible to own guns are far less likely to commit crimes because by definition felons, those illegally present, etc. are automatically excluded from that population.
swiley 7y ago
To be honest, even as an American who grew up around lots of adults that carried: yes policemen (and anyone else) open carrying is scary and I personally dislike it.
- AdrianB1 7y ago
  For personal curiosity (that killed the cat): why is it scary? Growing up in a rural area with lots of bears and boars, having to go anywhere without any weapon (guns are banned) is very scary. A gun, a hunting knife or an ax are just tools to me, same as a screwdriver, a vacuum cleaner or a lighter.
  - olalonde 7y ago
    Context is important. Someone carrying a hunting rifle in a rural area isn't that scary. Someone walking into a McDonald with a hand gun is.
  - Retric 7y ago
    If you are genuinely concerned about bears a hunting knife is almost worthless vs a can of bear mace. Hand guns fit between them, but are vastly less useful than most assume. https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.342 https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwm... As to why people might be cautious, I would say it’s completely rational behavior. A linebacker is more physically dangerous than a baby and people react to them differently. Becoming desensitized is just a normal response to exposure, not a more or less rational behavior.
    - AdrianB1 7y ago
      I never suggested that a hunting knife or an ax is of any use in a bear encounter, not even a handgun is of any value in a boar encounter, I just enumerated some things that are tools, are commonly open carried in the woods and are scary for some people.
      - Retric 7y ago
olalonde 7y ago
> We have policemen that open carry in every country, are they not scary? Yes they are scary and no, policemen do not open carry in every country (China, England, India, etc.). Also, policemen are professionally trained to handle them, have a clear purpose for carrying them and are less likely to be criminals.
- wl 7y ago
  > Also, policemen are professionally trained to handle them I've gone shooting with plenty of cops. There's nothing special about police academy that qualifies you to handle a handgun. If anything, frequent recreational shooters are probably better than your average cop, who shoots once or twice a year to qualify.
baby 7y ago
Your sentence is just so surreal to read for a non-American. I think you got used to a different state of security, and your normal is dangerous to me.

What is so scary with open carry? We have policemen that open carry in every country, are they not scary? We are talking about humans with guns, not about Batmans and Jokers.

Retric 7y ago

People with guns are significantly more likely and capable to commit crimes. Open carry in many social circles is like walking around in prison tattoos. Source: http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/jpj_firearm_ownership.pdf http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/jpj_firearm_owner... As this study points out no database of US gun ownership exists, which makes these studies harder to carry out. PS: Police are also a surprisingly violent group. Still unlikely to randomly shoot someone, but as a rational risk assessment they rate much higher than many groups like young kids.

AdrianB1 7y ago
People with penis are significantly more likely and capable of committing rape. They are everywhere!!! This is how your argument reads to me. Disclaimer: I live in a country with very strict gun control laws (East European, former Communist block. This is how they implemented it.)
- Retric 7y ago
  I am talking about why people might be uncomfortable not nessisarily about changing the law. I got plenty of negative responses as a tall and very strong young man. That bothered me even if I understood the reasons for it. People react negatively to guns and physical fitness for rational reasons. I might like shooting and being physically strong, but that’s no reason to discount reality.
masonic 7y ago
People with guns are significantly *more likely* and capable to commit crimes That is not at all what that paper actually says.
- Retric 7y ago
  “The results of this study suggest that a decrease in prevalence of firearms has the potential to decrease violent crime in the United States.” and it’s including quotes like that the common saying “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” should be amended to “guns don’t kill people, they just make it real easy.” Also, “In 2008, 67% of all homicides involved the use of a handgun, shotgun, rifle, and other firearms (Vito & Maahs, 2012).” Which is much higher than their normal prevalence among the general population. “Azrael, barnett, and Miller (2004) estimated that about 40% of households in the United States own at least one firearm.” With 67% being much larger than 40%. In what what does that disagree with what I said?
  - masonic 7y ago
    None of it agrees with what you claimed. These are all different metrics you are trying to conflate into what you want them to say. Homicide is a tiny percentage of overall crime. People who are legally eligible to own guns are far less likely to commit crimes because by definition felons, those illegally present, etc. are automatically excluded from that population.

swiley 7y ago

To be honest, even as an American who grew up around lots of adults that carried: yes policemen (and anyone else) open carrying is scary and I personally dislike it.

AdrianB1 7y ago
For personal curiosity (that killed the cat): why is it scary? Growing up in a rural area with lots of bears and boars, having to go anywhere without any weapon (guns are banned) is very scary. A gun, a hunting knife or an ax are just tools to me, same as a screwdriver, a vacuum cleaner or a lighter.
- olalonde 7y ago
  Context is important. Someone carrying a hunting rifle in a rural area isn't that scary. Someone walking into a McDonald with a hand gun is.
- Retric 7y ago
  If you are genuinely concerned about bears a hunting knife is almost worthless vs a can of bear mace. Hand guns fit between them, but are vastly less useful than most assume. https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.342 https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwm... As to why people might be cautious, I would say it’s completely rational behavior. A linebacker is more physically dangerous than a baby and people react to them differently. Becoming desensitized is just a normal response to exposure, not a more or less rational behavior.
  - AdrianB1 7y ago
    I never suggested that a hunting knife or an ax is of any use in a bear encounter, not even a handgun is of any value in a boar encounter, I just enumerated some things that are tools, are commonly open carried in the woods and are scary for some people.
    - Retric 7y ago

olalonde 7y ago

> We have policemen that open carry in every country, are they not scary? Yes they are scary and no, policemen do not open carry in every country (China, England, India, etc.). Also, policemen are professionally trained to handle them, have a clear purpose for carrying them and are less likely to be criminals.

wl 7y ago
> Also, policemen are professionally trained to handle them I've gone shooting with plenty of cops. There's nothing special about police academy that qualifies you to handle a handgun. If anything, frequent recreational shooters are probably better than your average cop, who shoots once or twice a year to qualify.

baby 7y ago

Your sentence is just so surreal to read for a non-American. I think you got used to a different state of security, and your normal is dangerous to me.