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> Plastics come from oil, which we are gradually running out of, though not quickly. I guess it depends on your definition of "quickly", or it would be good to
by guitarbill 7y ago
> Plastics come from oil, which we are gradually running out of, though not quickly.
I guess it depends on your definition of "quickly", or it would be good to see a citation on this one.
Personally, I believe that if we encourage recycling more, that creates an opportunity for companies to innovate in that space and come up with better recycling methods. So in that respect, I'd prefer to over-recycle than under-recycle.
- pier25 7y agoRecycling consumes energy. The better strategy is by far designing products that last longer or can be reused.
- greglindahl 7y ago"reduce, reuse, recycle" has been a popular slogan for a long time.
- lukifer 7y agoThere's a reason that Recycle comes last in "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle": it's the least desirable option. If you Reduce, you get an easy win by not needing the resource in the first place; Reuse achieves orders of magnitude of efficiency in the resource's utility (a glass mason jar can be used thousands of times, compared to a plastic one designed to used once and disposed). Recycling is often fraught with inefficiencies of both energy and waste byproducts. I would love to see more economic incentives around direct reuse (such as Pigovian taxes on disposable plastics, and consumer incentives to return glassware to the grocer and then the manufacturer for direct reuse).
- signal_space 7y agoThe issues with mason jars and ceramic cup ends up being the amount of energy required to fire the oven. This ends up putting you in a deep hole when it comes to accounting energy inputs, as consumer plastics are essentially repurposed refinery waste. This leaves you with the choice to either spend a lot of energy or risk environmental contamination. Chemical accounting ends up being a nontrivial problem to address.
- cobookman 7y agoOr are compostible. All grocery packaging should either be multi use or compostible. I hate how plastics are used where they don't need to be
- pier25 7y agoComposting is certainly better than single use plastics, but even a single use compostable bag is a waste of energy vs something that can be reused.
- celeritascelery 7y agoI love plastics bags because they get multiple uses in my house as lunch sacks, garbage can liners, etc. those are things that I would have to buy otherwise but now I get to resuse cheap plastics.
- C1sc0cat 7y agoOn a related point this green new deal housing plan that is being mooted will presumably mandate 200 years design life and much stricter build quality to reduce energy use?
- dehrmann 7y agoPlastics are a negligible use of oil (compared to transportation), oil can be synthesized, and I assume methane feedstock is adequate for making plastics.
- pfdietz 7y agoIt's more ethane than methane, but ethylene can be made from methane. http://siluria.com/Technology/Oxidative_Coupling_of_Methane http://siluria.com/Technology/Oxidative_Coupling_of_Methane
- undershirt 7y ago> I guess it depends on your definition of "quickly", or it would be good to see a citation on this one. A citation in your favor would be how net energy output only slowly declines as EROI plummets[1]. Slow decline is a general property of these types ”Seneca Cliffs”[2] present in collapse. [1] https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-03-12/the-real-energy-return-of-crude-oil-smaller-than-you-would-have-imagined/ https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-03-12/the-real-energ... [2] https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/seneca-effect-origins-of-collapse.html https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/seneca-effect-o...