5 ms·

But thanks to Reaganomics, prison turned to profits 'Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics 'Cause slavery was abolished, unless you are in prison

But thanks to Reaganomics, prison turned to profits 'Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics 'Cause slavery was abolished, unless you are in prison You think I am bullshittin', then read the 13th Amendment Involuntary servitude and slavery it prohibits That's why they givin' drug offenders time in double digits Killer Mike, "Reagan" https://youtube.com/watch?v=6lIqNjC1RKU https://youtube.com/watch?v=6lIqNjC1RKU

luckylion 7y ago
That may be a big part of the reason in the US, but Germany for example isn't big on decriminalization either, and we don't have anything similar to the US prison complex. I think a large part over here is that people think it's wrong and they don't believe in the individual's right to make a choice they consider wrong. Worldwide it's probably a mix of the two: powerful interests profiteering from the status quo and politicians and parts of the voting population not valuing individual freedom that much.
- ben-schaaf 7y ago
  From some quick googling it looks to me like Germany isn't big on decriminalisation because they're already most of the way there: > In 1994, the Federal Constitutional Court ruled that drug addiction and the possession of small amounts of drugs for personal use were not crimes.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    That only applied to Cannabis though, not to drugs in general, and it did not find that possession wasn't a crime, but that the state should not pursue indictments for personal use.
- dalore 7y ago
  This is what the article touched on. The culture has to shift to viewing drug addicts not as "druggies" but as someone with a problem who needs help. They changed the language they used to call them. Once this shift happened it's led the path to actually helping them instead of vilifying them.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    That's certainly part of it, yeah. But even that is a view that removes drug-use as a valid choice. I certainly agree that those suffering from addiction need help, and we should provide it generously, but not everyone that uses drugs needs help. Similar to alcohol, which a lot (most?) people are able to enjoy responsibly. It seems that there's still the idea that you'd try mdma (or lots of other drugs) and will immediately find yourself in a downward spiral, completely out of control.
microcolonel 7y ago
> 'Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics it isn't > 'Cause slavery was abolished, unless you are in prison; you think I am bullshittin', then read the 13th Amendment This is true, they didn't listen when Kanye said it awkwardly, but it's been true the whole time. > That's why they givin' drug offenders time in double digits Maaaaybe sometimes, but if you come at it from that perspective you aren't going to convince enough people to change their minds. The way it's been sold to the public is not from the perspective of benefitting prisons; so you need to address the argument that the public is given: that illicit drugs are so dangerous that the enforcement is worth it. There are lots of countries without "reaganomics" or any private prisons, which are extremely strict and punitive when it comes to illicit drugs. It looks like the law is going in the right direction though, the recent sentencing reform has been great, decriminalization (or at least, sentencing/institutions that do more good than harm) should be the next step, but it's not at the top of anyone's platform as far as I can tell. Added: another story on Hacker News today, related to prison labour in a country which isn't the U.S. (I see absolutely nobody crying foul): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20427122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20427122
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
  > so you need to address the argument that the public is given: that illicit drugs are so dangerous that the enforcement is worth it Some people see the problem in the fact that Americans are and have historically been very comfortable benefiting from injustice and from things that are enforced 'on other people'. Middle class young hippies were shocked when the system showed its teeth and banned a substance so that the movement could be targeted by the repression systems put in place... while that was the norm done toward people in bad neighborhoods. Some people think the the answer is to get people to be more self aware of their position, especially hypocritical positions based on emotion that hurt others, and hopefully be more empathetic.
  - microcolonel 7y ago

luckylion 7y ago

That may be a big part of the reason in the US, but Germany for example isn't big on decriminalization either, and we don't have anything similar to the US prison complex. I think a large part over here is that people think it's wrong and they don't believe in the individual's right to make a choice they consider wrong. Worldwide it's probably a mix of the two: powerful interests profiteering from the status quo and politicians and parts of the voting population not valuing individual freedom that much.

ben-schaaf 7y ago
From some quick googling it looks to me like Germany isn't big on decriminalisation because they're already most of the way there: > In 1994, the Federal Constitutional Court ruled that drug addiction and the possession of small amounts of drugs for personal use were not crimes.
- luckylion 7y ago
  That only applied to Cannabis though, not to drugs in general, and it did not find that possession wasn't a crime, but that the state should not pursue indictments for personal use.
dalore 7y ago
This is what the article touched on. The culture has to shift to viewing drug addicts not as "druggies" but as someone with a problem who needs help. They changed the language they used to call them. Once this shift happened it's led the path to actually helping them instead of vilifying them.
- luckylion 7y ago
  That's certainly part of it, yeah. But even that is a view that removes drug-use as a valid choice. I certainly agree that those suffering from addiction need help, and we should provide it generously, but not everyone that uses drugs needs help. Similar to alcohol, which a lot (most?) people are able to enjoy responsibly. It seems that there's still the idea that you'd try mdma (or lots of other drugs) and will immediately find yourself in a downward spiral, completely out of control.

microcolonel 7y ago

> 'Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics it isn't > 'Cause slavery was abolished, unless you are in prison; you think I am bullshittin', then read the 13th Amendment This is true, they didn't listen when Kanye said it awkwardly, but it's been true the whole time. > That's why they givin' drug offenders time in double digits Maaaaybe sometimes, but if you come at it from that perspective you aren't going to convince enough people to change their minds. The way it's been sold to the public is not from the perspective of benefitting prisons; so you need to address the argument that the public is given: that illicit drugs are so dangerous that the enforcement is worth it. There are lots of countries without "reaganomics" or any private prisons, which are extremely strict and punitive when it comes to illicit drugs. It looks like the law is going in the right direction though, the recent sentencing reform has been great, decriminalization (or at least, sentencing/institutions that do more good than harm) should be the next step, but it's not at the top of anyone's platform as far as I can tell. Added: another story on Hacker News today, related to prison labour in a country which isn't the U.S. (I see absolutely nobody crying foul): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20427122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20427122

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
4ntonius8lock 7y ago
> so you need to address the argument that the public is given: that illicit drugs are so dangerous that the enforcement is worth it Some people see the problem in the fact that Americans are and have historically been very comfortable benefiting from injustice and from things that are enforced 'on other people'. Middle class young hippies were shocked when the system showed its teeth and banned a substance so that the movement could be targeted by the repression systems put in place... while that was the norm done toward people in bad neighborhoods. Some people think the the answer is to get people to be more self aware of their position, especially hypocritical positions based on emotion that hurt others, and hopefully be more empathetic.
- microcolonel 7y ago