3 ms·

There are tons and tons of ortholinear diy-boards floating around. The problem with curved boards is manufacturing (for diy) and the pcb. But 3D printing solve

by tjoff 7y ago

There are tons and tons of ortholinear diy-boards floating around. The problem with curved boards is manufacturing (for diy) and the pcb. But 3D printing solved the first problem and they are mostly soldered with wires rather than experimenting with pcbs. So there are a few curved boards out there as well. Such as https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform/blob/master/R... As for touchpads they kind of suck as an input device (imo), but it would be easy to incorporate an apple device in the above. But people seem to be experimenting more with large ball mouses such as the kensington trackball or something like the point-stick that thinkpads use, where you don't even have to lift your hands of home-row.

ghaff 7y ago
I was a big trackball fan for many years (mostly Logitech models). Although I admit I switched away, in part because there was at least a period when I didn't like any of the models available, but also because Apple finally did a trackpad I actively liked rather than barely tolerated.
oposa 7y ago
> But 3D printing solved the first problem and they are mostly soldered with wires rather than experimenting with pcbs. It doesn't really. Modern diy culture is ultimately about publishing. That is what puts you on somewhat equal footing with a large entity. What we mostly have with 3d printing is a do-it-for-yourself culture. That is why every institution will have an exclusive maker space, where you will get reprimanded if you use too much machine time. Why people dump things on github without documentation for their resume. And why the hacker news thread on the raspberry pi is about what people are using rather than what they have created. A keyboard is a very basic object. It is almost like the hello world of hardware. Despite this it is very challenging to produce and publish one [0][1], or something like one [2]. But these stories mostly fall of deaf ears as this important part of diy culture has become marginalized. [0] https://blog.keyboard.io/post/181333242149/december-2018-a-startling-discovery https://blog.keyboard.io/post/181333242149/december-2018-a-s... [1] https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/blog/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/blog/ [2] http://www.tlalexander.com/business/ http://www.tlalexander.com/business/
- tjoff 7y ago
  We are talking about diy though? So I don't see how any of that is relevant?
  - oposa 7y ago
    I don't think we are talking about the same diy. There is one definition of diy, which I guess is now more common, that means self-repair, crafting or hobbyism. But there is also a more distinct definition, as in diy culture, that means having the capabilities that are usually only afforded certain professionals or companies. It is primary the latter definition that creates innovation and communities. The parent was asking why there isn't more innovation in keyboards despite the freedom to create them. The reason is because most of these keyboard are scrapbooks rather than zines. For that purpose 3d printing and handwiring makes sense. But for the purpose of innovation you need to be able to distribute your ideas. Which is something most people can't, because it is hard to do so. That is why most people are making flat keyboards, because that is what is within their reach. But that is more ikea than hip hop. Maybe we should call it aiy, assemble-it-yourself, instead (but that really isn't that important).
- Animats 7y ago
  Modern diy culture is ultimately about publishing. That's amusing. But not wrong.
  - oposa 7y ago
    It can of course be discussed but I think many of the 'natural' incentives to organize, or even notice something, like scarcity and expense isn't there anymore. These days there are just so much to compete with. I guess what people try to do instead is to make things modular. But then you might still end up with a few companies like adafruit and sparkfun running most of the show. The only good example I can think of is modular synths, which seems to have enough layers to be able to offer the "choose your own adventure" in meaningful way. There I could see how you could make something that people would want to "pull" from you, rather than having to "push" it. But on the other hand I don't know it that well.

by tjoff 7y ago

ghaff 7y ago

I was a big trackball fan for many years (mostly Logitech models). Although I admit I switched away, in part because there was at least a period when I didn't like any of the models available, but also because Apple finally did a trackpad I actively liked rather than barely tolerated.

oposa 7y ago

> But 3D printing solved the first problem and they are mostly soldered with wires rather than experimenting with pcbs. It doesn't really. Modern diy culture is ultimately about publishing. That is what puts you on somewhat equal footing with a large entity. What we mostly have with 3d printing is a do-it-for-yourself culture. That is why every institution will have an exclusive maker space, where you will get reprimanded if you use too much machine time. Why people dump things on github without documentation for their resume. And why the hacker news thread on the raspberry pi is about what people are using rather than what they have created. A keyboard is a very basic object. It is almost like the hello world of hardware. Despite this it is very challenging to produce and publish one [0][1], or something like one [2]. But these stories mostly fall of deaf ears as this important part of diy culture has become marginalized. [0] https://blog.keyboard.io/post/181333242149/december-2018-a-startling-discovery https://blog.keyboard.io/post/181333242149/december-2018-a-s... [1] https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/blog/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/blog/ [2] http://www.tlalexander.com/business/ http://www.tlalexander.com/business/

tjoff 7y ago
We are talking about diy though? So I don't see how any of that is relevant?
- oposa 7y ago
  I don't think we are talking about the same diy. There is one definition of diy, which I guess is now more common, that means self-repair, crafting or hobbyism. But there is also a more distinct definition, as in diy culture, that means having the capabilities that are usually only afforded certain professionals or companies. It is primary the latter definition that creates innovation and communities. The parent was asking why there isn't more innovation in keyboards despite the freedom to create them. The reason is because most of these keyboard are scrapbooks rather than zines. For that purpose 3d printing and handwiring makes sense. But for the purpose of innovation you need to be able to distribute your ideas. Which is something most people can't, because it is hard to do so. That is why most people are making flat keyboards, because that is what is within their reach. But that is more ikea than hip hop. Maybe we should call it aiy, assemble-it-yourself, instead (but that really isn't that important).
Animats 7y ago
Modern diy culture is ultimately about publishing. That's amusing. But not wrong.
- oposa 7y ago
  It can of course be discussed but I think many of the 'natural' incentives to organize, or even notice something, like scarcity and expense isn't there anymore. These days there are just so much to compete with. I guess what people try to do instead is to make things modular. But then you might still end up with a few companies like adafruit and sparkfun running most of the show. The only good example I can think of is modular synths, which seems to have enough layers to be able to offer the "choose your own adventure" in meaningful way. There I could see how you could make something that people would want to "pull" from you, rather than having to "push" it. But on the other hand I don't know it that well.