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Half the comments seem to be surprised by VGA. But just about every 1080p monitor has the port, and even Steam statistics[0] show that over 60% of their users u

by yyyk 7y ago

Half the comments seem to be surprised by VGA. But just about every 1080p monitor has the port, and even Steam statistics[0] show that over 60% of their users use 1080p, and about 75 percent use resolutions that are VGA compatible. 4K computer monitors are still uncommon - and Steam is likely tilted towards higher resolutions. In short: Most existing monitors support VGA, and probably a good deal of those actually use the port. [0] https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey VGA can do 1440p, but it's rare on these monitors, so I didn't count the 4.71% 2560x1440 users.

as1mov 7y ago
I've found VGA on literally on the TV's and monitors I've come across until now, regardless of which end of the price spectrum they are on. Plus these ports are durable too, you might get some glitchy tinted picture due to dust/bent pins, but it's better than nothing. Just last week, my team had to attend a meeting where our manager was going to project a presentation on a TV, sadly the HDMI port of the TV was not working so everybody's Macbook and it's dongles were useless. My manager had to resort to transferring the presentation file to my HP Probook and using it to present, which thankfully still sports a good set of ports (the only gripe I have is the lack on DP/mini DP).
- yyyk 7y ago
  VGA can barely do 2K not 4K, so most 2K and all 4K computer monitors don't include it. So it's not exactly that VGA is 'everywhere', rather that 4K computer monitors are a small section of the market, enthusiasts aside. 4K TVs are much more common - but many of those still have a VGA port (I guess TV owners are much more forgiving?).
  - y4mi 7y ago
    I got a full HD (vertical, IPS), 2k (IPS) and a 4k (TN) screen on my desk. All have VGA. I also have a 4k tv on my wall. It also has VGA.
    - yyyk 7y ago
      You have 4K equipment with a VGA port. But does it actually do 4K when using VGA or does it just downscale? I haven't ever seen any VGA cable which can go above 2048×1536, and that's also the maximum wiki mentions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector#Cable_quality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector#Cable_quality
      - y4mi 7y ago
        it upscales and its refresh rate is quite limited (i think to 25fps). we're talking about the presence of the connector, which let people actually use these screens - even when its not with the full resolution
        yyyk 7y ago
        Ah, so it 'pays' with a low refresh rate. That makes sense. That said, my point was that 4K computer monitors are rare (despite some communities of enthusiasts), and nearly everything currently in use has a VGA port.
      - rbanffy 7y ago
        When I set my mom up, in 2003 or so, I gave her one of mine 21" Integraph monitors. I was a bit jealous when I realized her computer was able to do accelerated 24 bpp 2048×1536 on that gorgeous (and back-breaking) screen. My laptop at the time could drive on external screen at 1024x768 and that was it. :-(
      - userbinator 7y ago
        VGA is an analog signal, so there is no theoretical limit, and the degradation is graceful --- edges of individual pixels will start looking blurry as you get closer to the physical limitations, but a recognisable image continues to appear.
- ghaff 7y ago
  It's slowly changing. The last 2 or 3 conferences I was at had HDMI which I could plug directly into my MacBook Pro. But I still always carry a VGA dongle around as well.
  - as1mov 7y ago
    Most of my colleagues who have the newer Macbooks (the one's which only have USB-C) do carry the USB-C->HDMI dongles, but they seem to break pretty often or worse, people outright steal them.
kelnage 7y ago
And of course there are still a lot of VGA-only projectors out there (especially the ceiling mounted ones in meeting rooms) - having a VGA port is a godsend when you come across them!
- pedrocr 7y ago
  I don't think you've been able to buy a VGA-only projector for a long time now. What I tend to find is projectors that have HDMI and DP ports left unused and connected to VGA only. And then everyone carries around a HDMI or DP to VGA adapter for them...
- yyyk 7y ago
  KVM switches are also a pain point - there are still many VGA-only KVMs which can get pricey to replace. It's probably not a problem for the laptop use case but it is for the home-lab setup.
  - flyinghamster 7y ago
    Amen to that. The exorbitant cost to replace my perfectly functional KVM switch is what keeps me on PS/2 and VGA. Does anyone make a backlit PS/2 keyboard, or are the power requirements too high?
    - yyyk 7y ago
      A web search found that the PS/2 interface apparently survived for a while in gaming keyboards due to advantages I wasn't aware of - apparently PS/2 had slightly better latency and N-key rollover. Even those keyboard switched to USB eventually. The only recently made and currently available with backlight PS/2 keyboard I found is the "Zowie Celeritas II" gaming keyboard (the manufacturer's page says USB+PS2, the reviews say it ships with a usb TO ps2 adapter). However it's pretty expensive, and the red leds might not fit your taste.
buboard 7y ago
Mostly useful for projectors. Handy for conferences
pmontra 7y ago
There are meeting rooms with old equipment with only VGA, no HDMI. Last time it happened to me, it was in a university. But the worst are the ones with Apple TV or Chromecast. Very convenient for residents that went through the installation and setup process, not so much for most of the other people.
intopieces 7y ago
Sure. But monitors don’t move around, so who cares what ports are on them? A VGA to whatever adapter can just hang there. I fully understand that there’s a network engineering / hacker group that goes place to place hooking into all manner of legacy hardware, and that this laptop is a welcome sight to those who have been left behind by the push towards simplicity. However, the implication (in other comments) that VGA is a necessary laptop port for the mostly desk-to-conference crowd is a bit absurd. Docks are fine.
- yyyk 7y ago
  I was arguing for the flip side of your comment: that in practice VGA is still supported by most display equipment and is often used, and that including support for a still widely used port is not all that surprising. Maybe five or ten years from now (given long lifetimes of equipment in question) it would be surprising to still have a VGA port. I agree that docks and adapters are perfectly fine, at least for me and my use cases. But it's not unreasonable for some users to desire direct support for a widely used port. I've had cases where adapters went bad and created issues - the most serious one was a mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter which caused display artefacts. But I've never yet had a VGA adapter cause issues. To each their own I guess.

by yyyk 7y ago

as1mov 7y ago

I've found VGA on literally on the TV's and monitors I've come across until now, regardless of which end of the price spectrum they are on. Plus these ports are durable too, you might get some glitchy tinted picture due to dust/bent pins, but it's better than nothing. Just last week, my team had to attend a meeting where our manager was going to project a presentation on a TV, sadly the HDMI port of the TV was not working so everybody's Macbook and it's dongles were useless. My manager had to resort to transferring the presentation file to my HP Probook and using it to present, which thankfully still sports a good set of ports (the only gripe I have is the lack on DP/mini DP).

yyyk 7y ago
VGA can barely do 2K not 4K, so most 2K and all 4K computer monitors don't include it. So it's not exactly that VGA is 'everywhere', rather that 4K computer monitors are a small section of the market, enthusiasts aside. 4K TVs are much more common - but many of those still have a VGA port (I guess TV owners are much more forgiving?).
- y4mi 7y ago
  I got a full HD (vertical, IPS), 2k (IPS) and a 4k (TN) screen on my desk. All have VGA. I also have a 4k tv on my wall. It also has VGA.
  - yyyk 7y ago
    You have 4K equipment with a VGA port. But does it actually do 4K when using VGA or does it just downscale? I haven't ever seen any VGA cable which can go above 2048×1536, and that's also the maximum wiki mentions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector#Cable_quality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector#Cable_quality
    - y4mi 7y ago
      it upscales and its refresh rate is quite limited (i think to 25fps). we're talking about the presence of the connector, which let people actually use these screens - even when its not with the full resolution
      - yyyk 7y ago
        Ah, so it 'pays' with a low refresh rate. That makes sense. That said, my point was that 4K computer monitors are rare (despite some communities of enthusiasts), and nearly everything currently in use has a VGA port.
    - rbanffy 7y ago
      When I set my mom up, in 2003 or so, I gave her one of mine 21" Integraph monitors. I was a bit jealous when I realized her computer was able to do accelerated 24 bpp 2048×1536 on that gorgeous (and back-breaking) screen. My laptop at the time could drive on external screen at 1024x768 and that was it. :-(
    - userbinator 7y ago
      VGA is an analog signal, so there is no theoretical limit, and the degradation is graceful --- edges of individual pixels will start looking blurry as you get closer to the physical limitations, but a recognisable image continues to appear.
ghaff 7y ago
It's slowly changing. The last 2 or 3 conferences I was at had HDMI which I could plug directly into my MacBook Pro. But I still always carry a VGA dongle around as well.
- as1mov 7y ago
  Most of my colleagues who have the newer Macbooks (the one's which only have USB-C) do carry the USB-C->HDMI dongles, but they seem to break pretty often or worse, people outright steal them.

kelnage 7y ago

And of course there are still a lot of VGA-only projectors out there (especially the ceiling mounted ones in meeting rooms) - having a VGA port is a godsend when you come across them!

pedrocr 7y ago
I don't think you've been able to buy a VGA-only projector for a long time now. What I tend to find is projectors that have HDMI and DP ports left unused and connected to VGA only. And then everyone carries around a HDMI or DP to VGA adapter for them...
yyyk 7y ago
KVM switches are also a pain point - there are still many VGA-only KVMs which can get pricey to replace. It's probably not a problem for the laptop use case but it is for the home-lab setup.
- flyinghamster 7y ago
  Amen to that. The exorbitant cost to replace my perfectly functional KVM switch is what keeps me on PS/2 and VGA. Does anyone make a backlit PS/2 keyboard, or are the power requirements too high?
  - yyyk 7y ago
    A web search found that the PS/2 interface apparently survived for a while in gaming keyboards due to advantages I wasn't aware of - apparently PS/2 had slightly better latency and N-key rollover. Even those keyboard switched to USB eventually. The only recently made and currently available with backlight PS/2 keyboard I found is the "Zowie Celeritas II" gaming keyboard (the manufacturer's page says USB+PS2, the reviews say it ships with a usb TO ps2 adapter). However it's pretty expensive, and the red leds might not fit your taste.

buboard 7y ago

Mostly useful for projectors. Handy for conferences

pmontra 7y ago

There are meeting rooms with old equipment with only VGA, no HDMI. Last time it happened to me, it was in a university. But the worst are the ones with Apple TV or Chromecast. Very convenient for residents that went through the installation and setup process, not so much for most of the other people.

intopieces 7y ago

Sure. But monitors don’t move around, so who cares what ports are on them? A VGA to whatever adapter can just hang there. I fully understand that there’s a network engineering / hacker group that goes place to place hooking into all manner of legacy hardware, and that this laptop is a welcome sight to those who have been left behind by the push towards simplicity. However, the implication (in other comments) that VGA is a necessary laptop port for the mostly desk-to-conference crowd is a bit absurd. Docks are fine.

yyyk 7y ago
I was arguing for the flip side of your comment: that in practice VGA is still supported by most display equipment and is often used, and that including support for a still widely used port is not all that surprising. Maybe five or ten years from now (given long lifetimes of equipment in question) it would be surprising to still have a VGA port. I agree that docks and adapters are perfectly fine, at least for me and my use cases. But it's not unreasonable for some users to desire direct support for a widely used port. I've had cases where adapters went bad and created issues - the most serious one was a mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter which caused display artefacts. But I've never yet had a VGA adapter cause issues. To each their own I guess.