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Strange article. The point around controlling only 50% - what the heck does that even mean?! As a tennis player, you know there are many variables at play in e

by osrec 7y ago

Strange article. The point around controlling only 50% - what the heck does that even mean?! As a tennis player, you know there are many variables at play in each rally. This sort of simplistic analysis tells us pretty much nothing. In my opinion, Nadal is great on clay because of his tenacity and ability to play the big points well. The slowness of the court helps him too as it prevents people hitting through him (I'll concede the article does mention that), and allows him to expose a less fit opponent (most are, when compared to Nadal) through extended rallies. He also has a very reliable 2 handed backhand that he can impart a great deal of spin on (unlike Djokovic or Murray, who hit it relatively flat). This gives him consistency. He is also able to handle high bouncing balls on clay on the backhand much better than others, especially those with a single handed backhand. For a baseliner, he has a very solid net game, and has a great sense of when to come in and finish the point. In my opinion, he has a better understanding of the "geometry" of the clay court, in that he knows when his opponent is at the point of no return. He then sneaks in to the net and finishes with a slice volley that drops dead on the clay. Finally, he plays left handed (despite being right handed). Being lefty is a big advantage in tennis in general, because 3 of the 4 game ending point scores will, by definition, be served to your forehand side (40-0, 40-30, A-40). Then there's the southpaw spin, which is harder to handle for most right handed players. Combine the slower court, the point score advantage and Nadal's natural returning abilities (second only to Djok), and you make it very very tricky to win games.

addicted 7y ago
Often ignored, but extremely relevant IMO, is Nadals tremendous ability to return basically anything he can reach is magnified at RG specifically (which is what we mean by clay, for the most part) by the really deep backcourts. RG has the most space between the baseline and the stands, and Nadal takes full advantage of it. I’ve always wondered why players haven’t tried taking advantage of that, with maybe an underhanded serve, and for the first time Kyrgios tried that this Wimbledon and actually won the point. It may not be as useful in RG because of the bounce, but the ability to draw Nadal closer to the Net during serve would be huge IMO.
- osrec 7y ago
  Interesting point. Never thought about the area behind baseline, but it's a very valid point. I think you're correct that it gives him time, which given his speed lets him return even more. I'm personally not a fan of the underhand serve (bit traditional in that regard!), but yeah, it does catch him out sometimes.
dfabulich 7y ago
When I first saw this silly article, I thought it was literally the 2007 Onion article, "Rafael Nadal Credits French Open Success To Living In A World Of Clay." https://sports.theonion.com/rafael-nadal-credits-french-open-success-to-living-in-a-1819569166 https://sports.theonion.com/rafael-nadal-credits-french-open... > "I speak, naturally, of clay itself," Nadal added, luxuriating as he worked his handful of clay into his face, neck, and scalp. "Yes. Clay. Yes."
SubiculumCode 7y ago
Yes, the 50% control "analysis" was vapid, and said nothing new to the paragraph previous except for exchanging one noun for another. Then, I tend to read "moneyball" articles that are often quite good for baseball (e.g., on Fangraphs), and just expect more.
whycombagator 7y ago
> He also has a very reliable 2 handed backhand I've not analyzed it in depth, but against Federer on grass the other day he avoided hitting his backhand A LOT. It was as if only 20% of the court was in play for his backhand. His forehand is absolutely excellent, so perhaps that's part of it. I'd have to watch him on clay again (haven't in a while) to see if the slower court means he can avoid hitting that backhand even more/more easily
- osrec 7y ago
  Federer was ripping his backhand to Rafa's forehand - this is not what Federer usually does, and it unsettled Rafa. On grass, a ripped single handed backhand zips through the court and is hard to deal with. Rafa usually runs round anything to his backhand so he can hit up the line to Fed's backhand (Fed's "weakness"). Yesterday this wasn't working due to the quality of Federer's backhand. In all Federer was just playing too well yesterday - great game plan, executed very well. Rafa couldn't play his normal game against Federer's variety. But great match overall. Can't believe they play like this at their age.
  - whycombagator 7y ago
    It was certainly an epic game. From what I witnessed, at times, Nadal was actively running around shots placed to his backhand. These were shots placed towards, almost, the corner of the court - perfect for a backhand reply, yet he was still trying to hit forehands. Sometimes it worked out quite well for him, other times not so much
    - xbmcuser 7y ago
      To me Nadal's greatest strength is keeping the ball in play most players are not that consistent so make the error in long rallies and give him the point. Djokovic and Fedrer don't so he has to go for winners against them where when he hits good he beats when he doesn't he looses. In the semi he won the 2nd set when Fedrer started making errors. In 2nd and third Fedrer cut down on his errors and made Nadal go for winners which Nadal wasn't able to.

by osrec 7y ago

addicted 7y ago

Often ignored, but extremely relevant IMO, is Nadals tremendous ability to return basically anything he can reach is magnified at RG specifically (which is what we mean by clay, for the most part) by the really deep backcourts. RG has the most space between the baseline and the stands, and Nadal takes full advantage of it. I’ve always wondered why players haven’t tried taking advantage of that, with maybe an underhanded serve, and for the first time Kyrgios tried that this Wimbledon and actually won the point. It may not be as useful in RG because of the bounce, but the ability to draw Nadal closer to the Net during serve would be huge IMO.

osrec 7y ago
Interesting point. Never thought about the area behind baseline, but it's a very valid point. I think you're correct that it gives him time, which given his speed lets him return even more. I'm personally not a fan of the underhand serve (bit traditional in that regard!), but yeah, it does catch him out sometimes.

dfabulich 7y ago

When I first saw this silly article, I thought it was literally the 2007 Onion article, "Rafael Nadal Credits French Open Success To Living In A World Of Clay." https://sports.theonion.com/rafael-nadal-credits-french-open-success-to-living-in-a-1819569166 https://sports.theonion.com/rafael-nadal-credits-french-open... > "I speak, naturally, of clay itself," Nadal added, luxuriating as he worked his handful of clay into his face, neck, and scalp. "Yes. Clay. Yes."

SubiculumCode 7y ago

Yes, the 50% control "analysis" was vapid, and said nothing new to the paragraph previous except for exchanging one noun for another. Then, I tend to read "moneyball" articles that are often quite good for baseball (e.g., on Fangraphs), and just expect more.

whycombagator 7y ago

> He also has a very reliable 2 handed backhand I've not analyzed it in depth, but against Federer on grass the other day he avoided hitting his backhand A LOT. It was as if only 20% of the court was in play for his backhand. His forehand is absolutely excellent, so perhaps that's part of it. I'd have to watch him on clay again (haven't in a while) to see if the slower court means he can avoid hitting that backhand even more/more easily

osrec 7y ago
Federer was ripping his backhand to Rafa's forehand - this is not what Federer usually does, and it unsettled Rafa. On grass, a ripped single handed backhand zips through the court and is hard to deal with. Rafa usually runs round anything to his backhand so he can hit up the line to Fed's backhand (Fed's "weakness"). Yesterday this wasn't working due to the quality of Federer's backhand. In all Federer was just playing too well yesterday - great game plan, executed very well. Rafa couldn't play his normal game against Federer's variety. But great match overall. Can't believe they play like this at their age.
- whycombagator 7y ago
  It was certainly an epic game. From what I witnessed, at times, Nadal was actively running around shots placed to his backhand. These were shots placed towards, almost, the corner of the court - perfect for a backhand reply, yet he was still trying to hit forehands. Sometimes it worked out quite well for him, other times not so much
  - xbmcuser 7y ago
    To me Nadal's greatest strength is keeping the ball in play most players are not that consistent so make the error in long rallies and give him the point. Djokovic and Fedrer don't so he has to go for winners against them where when he hits good he beats when he doesn't he looses. In the semi he won the 2nd set when Fedrer started making errors. In 2nd and third Fedrer cut down on his errors and made Nadal go for winners which Nadal wasn't able to.