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I was in a top wow guild. Paid to move my character to a new server, even. Was in a number 1 guild, I remember getting thousands of messages when we got a serve

by wincy 7y ago

I was in a top wow guild. Paid to move my character to a new server, even. Was in a number 1 guild, I remember getting thousands of messages when we got a server first. It was insane. It felt so amazing though in that moment. I imagine I’d feel the same if I’d won the Olympics as silly as that sounds. Ultimately it was a hollow victory. The hundreds of hours, the 185 days of real 24 hour days I put into that single character, I can never get back. Those people were had a thin facade of friendship, but I don’t talk to them anymore. We were never really friends. We were just addicts engaging in the same quest for ever larger dopamine hits. I remember kicking out people from our guild because they “underperformed”, even if they were good guys and we liked hanging out with them. All that mattered was the raid. All that mattered was winning. It’s weird too because I think back and at a deep level our server first was the most intense positive emotional experience of my life. Not my kid being born, not getting married. My mind was convinced we were in a war against an insurmountable foe and we won. It makes me sad, like my level of what’s exciting is permanently messed up and skewed from what reality can offer. I’ve heard similar stories about meth and other drugs, that colors don’t seem as bright after you stop. I really wish I’d never played WoW, or EVE. It was escapism for some really terrible times in my life and rather than help it just retarded the healing and mental recuperation I needed for many years. It definitely wasn’t about friendship, though.

Ntrails 7y ago
Never got server firsts, but wasn't far behind. Certainly I remember grinding mats and gold for raids. However. To suggest that a bot renders gameplay meaningless doesn't make any sense. Is it meaningless to tend a garden because there are gardeners? I could pay someone to cook my food, does that make cooking pointless? You traded your time for experiences and afterwards decided you made a bad decision. That is your right - but I don't regret the entertainment that Eve or Wow have given me. You created a weird equivalence which I don't think holds.
- wincy 7y ago
  I think you’re confusing me in your first paragraph for another person, sorry. I never used a bot. I’m glad you enjoy your time on WoW and EVE. I was just trying to describe my personal loved experience and contemplation of what I gained (or lost) from it many years later. I was extremely depressed and suffered terrible anxiety after a traumatic experience. I think if socializing had necessitated getting out of my house, or getting a job rather than living in wow and further secluding myself from the world, I would have recovered sooner. I don’t know if that’s true. Maybe things would have been worse without that escape. To be clear, I’m not making value judgments about other people’s enjoyment of an entertainment product. I’m simply describing in retrospect how I feel about wow and EVE after totally immersing myself in those worlds for years.
- y4mi 7y ago
  > However. To suggest that a bot renders gameplay meaningless doesn't make any sense. The bot was my example of how a game lost its magic for me. I was trying to convey that the tokens which disillusioned the previous commenter aren't actually so bad. It's just that if you stop thinking about these rules as necessary and realize that they're just arbitrary decisions with no actual impact beyond this game and you're currently investing a significant amount of time into them.... Then you're very likely become disillusioned with the game and suddenly everything you do in the game is suddenly tainted by that admission. the triggers vary widely while the actual reasons for the triggers are generally this disillusionment I'm also not saying that gaming is a lesser hobby. I play games quite frequently, but never again with that previous zeal. It just became an activity to kill time with. Before, it was more.
Cpoll 7y ago
> I imagine I’d feel the same if I’d won the Olympics as silly as that sounds. Ultimately it was a hollow victory. The hundreds of hours, the 185 days of real 24 hour days I put into that single character, I can never get back. I wonder if some medallists feel the same way. If you don't leverage it into a retirement (and a lot of the less popular events can't), you're left with some medals, experience, and memories.
robocat 7y ago
Different social games filter for different types of people. I played Ingress for a while, but the game like many others encourages a certain (sociopathic?) personality at the top. I gave it up because I wanted it to encourage friendship and collaboration, but I felt that it really didn't.
nrb 7y ago
These games don’t exist in a vacuum, the social interactions are all purely human ones. It sounds like it taught you about what social groups to avoid in real-world society, and the costs of fixating on things that don’t really matter in the big picture. Replace “the game” with “my job” and you’ll see many parallels with those who end up living entire lives of regret about their careers. Learning that lesson over the course of under two years worth of 8 hour days doesn’t strike me as that horrible.

by wincy 7y ago

Ntrails 7y ago

Never got server firsts, but wasn't far behind. Certainly I remember grinding mats and gold for raids. However. To suggest that a bot renders gameplay meaningless doesn't make any sense. Is it meaningless to tend a garden because there are gardeners? I could pay someone to cook my food, does that make cooking pointless? You traded your time for experiences and afterwards decided you made a bad decision. That is your right - but I don't regret the entertainment that Eve or Wow have given me. You created a weird equivalence which I don't think holds.

wincy 7y ago
I think you’re confusing me in your first paragraph for another person, sorry. I never used a bot. I’m glad you enjoy your time on WoW and EVE. I was just trying to describe my personal loved experience and contemplation of what I gained (or lost) from it many years later. I was extremely depressed and suffered terrible anxiety after a traumatic experience. I think if socializing had necessitated getting out of my house, or getting a job rather than living in wow and further secluding myself from the world, I would have recovered sooner. I don’t know if that’s true. Maybe things would have been worse without that escape. To be clear, I’m not making value judgments about other people’s enjoyment of an entertainment product. I’m simply describing in retrospect how I feel about wow and EVE after totally immersing myself in those worlds for years.
y4mi 7y ago
> However. To suggest that a bot renders gameplay meaningless doesn't make any sense. The bot was my example of how a game lost its magic for me. I was trying to convey that the tokens which disillusioned the previous commenter aren't actually so bad. It's just that if you stop thinking about these rules as necessary and realize that they're just arbitrary decisions with no actual impact beyond this game and you're currently investing a significant amount of time into them.... Then you're very likely become disillusioned with the game and suddenly everything you do in the game is suddenly tainted by that admission. the triggers vary widely while the actual reasons for the triggers are generally this disillusionment I'm also not saying that gaming is a lesser hobby. I play games quite frequently, but never again with that previous zeal. It just became an activity to kill time with. Before, it was more.

Cpoll 7y ago

> I imagine I’d feel the same if I’d won the Olympics as silly as that sounds. Ultimately it was a hollow victory. The hundreds of hours, the 185 days of real 24 hour days I put into that single character, I can never get back. I wonder if some medallists feel the same way. If you don't leverage it into a retirement (and a lot of the less popular events can't), you're left with some medals, experience, and memories.

robocat 7y ago

Different social games filter for different types of people. I played Ingress for a while, but the game like many others encourages a certain (sociopathic?) personality at the top. I gave it up because I wanted it to encourage friendship and collaboration, but I felt that it really didn't.

nrb 7y ago

These games don’t exist in a vacuum, the social interactions are all purely human ones. It sounds like it taught you about what social groups to avoid in real-world society, and the costs of fixating on things that don’t really matter in the big picture. Replace “the game” with “my job” and you’ll see many parallels with those who end up living entire lives of regret about their careers. Learning that lesson over the course of under two years worth of 8 hour days doesn’t strike me as that horrible.