4 ms·

Boycotts come at the cost of the participants but to the benefit of the greater good. You’re being asked not to cross the picket line. If you don’t believe VWs

Boycotts come at the cost of the participants but to the benefit of the greater good. You’re being asked not to cross the picket line. If you don’t believe VWs transgressions were enough to warrant a boycott, that’s a fair point to make. I’m not in the car market so I don’t even have an opinion on it, myself. But to the parent’s credit: they never meant to talk about you benefitting personally. It’s about teaching car makers that actions have consequences. For the greater good. Put another way: how bad does VW have to mess up before you consider more than your personal benefit?

Hydraulix989 7y ago
Toyota had an Unintended Acceleration problem that actually put peoples' lives at stake, and they denied everything / covered it up [1]. I don't recall people boycotting Toyota. [1] Toyota to Pay $1.2B for Hiding Deadly ‘Unintended Acceleration’ https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214 https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-...
- trilila 7y ago
  They certainly didn't put the fault there by design, and over a number of years. I think VW has done irreversible damage to the environment systematically over a long number of years.
  - MegaButts 7y ago
    My understanding is just about every car maker does this, and VW is just the company to fall on the sword. Hopefully in a few years there will be more data and journalism on this to substantiate or refute these rumors.
    - Hydraulix989 7y ago
      Indeed, I cite a source corroborating this in my cousin post. Every car manufacturer that is building ICE vehicles is damaging the environment. Even though VW fudged some numbers in their report like everybody else did, the fact that there are even cars on the road to begin with is by far the main contributor to global warming, much more than any incremental damage (if any) caused by people who could have been mislead into buying a "clean diesel" vehicle based on sheer (mis-)reporting. If there was a TDI next to an F-250 on the road, and I asked someone to point to the biggest offender, everyone would point at the F-250. It's really unfortunate to see VW become the scapegoat here in the US (but unfortunately also quite predictable since they are a "foreign" car manufacturer).
  - Hydraulix989 7y ago
    Do you think it was right for Toyota to stonewall and cover it up after it was discovered?
Marsymars 7y ago
I'm not saying I won't participate in a boycott, I'm saying it's not clear that a boycott of VW benefits the greater good, because a) It's not clear that current or future VW is behaving or will behave any worse than other car manufacturers. and b) There's pretty free movement in decision-makers between various car manufacturers. I don't anthropomorphize companies; they aren't people. They can be economically incentivized or legislatively regulated, but they can't learn. > Put another way: how bad does VW have to mess up before you consider more than your personal benefit? There'd have to be some indication that me buying a VW would be contributing to future mess ups.

Hydraulix989 7y ago

Toyota had an Unintended Acceleration problem that actually put peoples' lives at stake, and they denied everything / covered it up [1]. I don't recall people boycotting Toyota. [1] Toyota to Pay $1.2B for Hiding Deadly ‘Unintended Acceleration’ https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214 https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-...

trilila 7y ago
They certainly didn't put the fault there by design, and over a number of years. I think VW has done irreversible damage to the environment systematically over a long number of years.
- MegaButts 7y ago
  My understanding is just about every car maker does this, and VW is just the company to fall on the sword. Hopefully in a few years there will be more data and journalism on this to substantiate or refute these rumors.
  - Hydraulix989 7y ago
    Indeed, I cite a source corroborating this in my cousin post. Every car manufacturer that is building ICE vehicles is damaging the environment. Even though VW fudged some numbers in their report like everybody else did, the fact that there are even cars on the road to begin with is by far the main contributor to global warming, much more than any incremental damage (if any) caused by people who could have been mislead into buying a "clean diesel" vehicle based on sheer (mis-)reporting. If there was a TDI next to an F-250 on the road, and I asked someone to point to the biggest offender, everyone would point at the F-250. It's really unfortunate to see VW become the scapegoat here in the US (but unfortunately also quite predictable since they are a "foreign" car manufacturer).
- Hydraulix989 7y ago
  Do you think it was right for Toyota to stonewall and cover it up after it was discovered?

Marsymars 7y ago

I'm not saying I won't participate in a boycott, I'm saying it's not clear that a boycott of VW benefits the greater good, because a) It's not clear that current or future VW is behaving or will behave any worse than other car manufacturers. and b) There's pretty free movement in decision-makers between various car manufacturers. I don't anthropomorphize companies; they aren't people. They can be economically incentivized or legislatively regulated, but they can't learn. > Put another way: how bad does VW have to mess up before you consider more than your personal benefit? There'd have to be some indication that me buying a VW would be contributing to future mess ups.