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The worsening journalistic disgrace at Wired
- moondowner 16y ago"Whether by design or effect, Kevin Poulsen and Wired have played a critical role in concealing the truth from the public about the Manning arrest." Manning is in a cell getting the worst possible treatment for God's sake. The damage has been done, however, anyone who cares can sign this petition "Stop the Inhumane Treatment of Bradley Manning" (it's a blog post with a petition, to be more precise): http://my.firedoglake.com/blog/2010/12/23/bradley-manning-speaks-about-his-conditions/ http://my.firedoglake.com/blog/2010/12/23/bradley-manning-sp...
- sigzero 16y agoInhumane? Please. He is a traitor and after reading that article is not being treated inhumanely.
- rhizome 16y agoNot much for due process, areya?
- qq66 16y agoDue process in the military is not the same as due process for civilians. This is well-known and not sprung upon people after they join the armed forces.
- mcantelon 16y agoThose who joined in the American revolution were also traitors. Sometimes traitors are right.
- hebejebelus 16y agoLooks like someone needs to do some leaking down at the Wired office. That would be interesting, particularly if the chat logs were "leaked" to Wikileaks. Would they still publish the logs, even if the logs meant life imprisonment for Bradley Manning? Would that then be a breach of trust between Wikileaks and Manning? Anyway, besides all my ridiculous speculation and getting ahead of things; The title is in no way an exaggeration, and Poulson should think rather hard about what he's going to do about it.
- jdp23 16y agoThe title seems like a huge exaggeration to me. Ellen Nakashima at the Washington Post is taking the same stance at Kevin. I certainly can see why other journalists wish they would publish the chat logs but it's their call, not Glenn's.
- naner 16y agoIf evidence in Wikileaks favor was leaked to Wikileaks the conflict of interest would call into question the validity of the evidence. It would be better if it were provided to a 3rd party with no stake in the outcome.
- commandar 16y agoSupposedly, Adrian Lamo had submitted the logs to Wikileaks to pose this conundrum before giving them over to Wired.
- rhizome 16y agocite?
- redthrowaway 16y agoSource? It's interesting if true, but I think that would be hard to verify, as Lamo's honesty is suspect and Assange has no problem lying about what he does or does not have.
- commandar 16y ago
- jdp23 16y agoTL;DR summary: Glenn thinks Kevin Poulsen is a disgrace for not publishing the chat logs Adrian Lamo gave him involving Bradley Manning (or somebody claiming to be Bradley) (as potentially edited by Adrian).
- robterrell 16y agoYour summary misses the longest and most interesting part of the article: the discussion of the pre-existing relationship between Lamo, Mark Rasch, Poulsen, and Chet Uber (can the names in the saga get any better?), the fact that Rasch is the guy who sent Poulsen to prison before he was a writer for Wired, the fact that Rasch himself is a writer for Wired, and the fact that Lamo's claims about the contents of the log continue to shift in ways that seem beneficial to the prosecution.
- jdp23 16y agoFair enough. None of this is news but the information about the relationships is useful for people who aren't familiar with the backstory. As for Lamo's story continuing to shift, gee, what a surprise.
- rhizome 16y agoI'd say the information about pre-existing relationships among the players, as well as conflicts of interest within them, is indeed news.
- jdp23 16y agoNews to Greenwald, apparently. It's well known in the security and civil liberties communities.
- tomkarlo 16y agoRegardless of how well known those relationships are in certain circles, Wired should still disclose them when publishing a story, given that they have a much wider target audience.
- futuremint 16y agoI'm mildly surprised that a media outlet is actually calling this out at another organization. In my opinion, every media outlet has been complicit in helping the U.S. powers that be try to discredit Wikileaks and distract from the contents of the leaks. Not to mention hiding corruption. Wikileaks has done a great job at showing the world how much those in power don't care about anything but their own power (and their "conspiracy network"). But all I'm seeing is the same apathetic and head-in-the-sand response from the general population to reality.
- llimllib 16y agoKeep reading Greenwald, he's been superb on this issue and agrees with you.
- mquander 16y agoIf this were on the New York Times editorial page, I'd agree with you, but I can't believe you're surprised that Glenn Greenwald is angry at another media outlet. He is angry about the same thing every week.
- pstuart 16y agoThere's plenty to be angry about.
- futuremint 16y agoThis is the first time I've heard of Greenwald. I don't read Salon regularly. However the occasional article I have read has been decent.
- mark_l_watson 16y agoExcept Salon: they have had very good coverage. I donated money to them a few days ago, largely because I wanted to make sure that they could be one of the only sources in the USA of real news (besides the Comedy Channel).
- Alex3917 16y ago
- shanked 16y agoCould it be that the information in the chat logs are sensitive and he/Wired is avoiding the legal nightmare that may be caused by publishing?
- tzs 16y agoPerhaps Wired is only releasing those parts of the logs that they are able to find some corroboration for. Considering the Salon author's prior poorly researched reporting on Manning, the idea of actually checking on things before publishing may be alien to him.
- rhizome 16y agoThat's an awfully charitable attitude toward Wired, who has stonewalled without comment any inquiry regarding the logs since they got them. Considering the amount of public pressure the US Government has exerted in prior restraint of the press and punishing those in their employ who might read Wikileaks, it seems reasonable to conclude that Wired is withholding them either under government duress or is saving them up for a different story (like a book or a post-conviction victory lap). In other words, power and/or money, not public benefit.
- aw3c2 16y agobad link, go to the full story straight away: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/27/wired/index.html http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/27...
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- jeremymims 16y agoGlenn Greenwald has consistently delivered the best analysis of what has been going on with Wikileaks. He's appalled at the way most of the media has covered this story and I couldn't agree more.
- nir 16y agoI don't understand - I thought the media was (justly) all over WikiLeaks, with special features in Guardian, NY Times and others? Short of the 2008 elections, I can't think of stories that got similar attention in recent years. I don't get Greenwald's issue with Wired. Journalists rarely provide complete records or transcripts of their communications with sources. Even interviews contain mutually agreed "off the record" sections. Maybe they ought to release the chat logs, maybe not, either way "journalistic disgrace" sounds a bit hyperbolic.
- jdp23 16y agoAgreed. I share Glenn's skepticism of the Lamo's changing stories but y'know it was the New York Times who published it, not Wired. At some level it comes across as sour grapes and jealousy that Kevin knows more about than he does.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- Vivtek 16y agoHis delicious hyperbole is why I love Glenn Greenwald.
- codybrown 16y agoDon't just complain about this. Show Wired how much interest there is in releasing the chat logs. I'm organizing response here: http://kommons.com/questions/418 http://kommons.com/questions/418
- schrototo 16y agoWired has always been the worst kind of tabloid (The Web is Dead, push technology is the future, the dotcom bubble won't ever burst...), their lack of journalistic ethics doesn't surprise me in the least.
- rbanffy 16y agoStill, It's not Poulsen's obligation to release the Lamo-Manning logs. If Greenwald wants them so much, he is free to contact Lamo himself. Also, don't forget Lamo could have edited the logs before giving them to Poulsen and it's only Lamo's word that assures their authenticity.
- queensnake 16y agoThe article says that Lamo says he doesn't have them any more.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- rbanffy 16y agoI suppose we can't prove he is telling the truth
- nir 16y agoI'm not a fan of Wired, but Salon (and certainly Greenwald) have been doing a very similar kind of reporting.
- shareme 16y agoThis is Wikileaks thesis that those who have influence are hiding facts to miss-lead public to a different conclusion.. Here we have 2 of the 4 and possibly 3 of the four being government informants driving a miss-leading conclusion of the media story and using Wired as government mouthpiece.. I submit that wikileaks will not be charged by the US government due to the corrupt miss-handling of both government informants in this case as well las the PR work the government embarked upon...there are simply too many skeletons that no-one wants to see the light of day.. And the US government has history of dropping prosecution if secrets are used as evidence in courts as they do not want them exposed...However, Manning is different case because he will be in the Military court system not the public US court system..which is unfortunate as he should be able to defend himself using whatever evidence Wired has..
- mikedouglas 16y agoGreenwald doesn't seem to think that Lamos is a credible witness because statements he has made in the press aren't corroborated in the released sections of the chat log. But, (1) isn't it likely that the chat logs aren't the full extent of the communication between Manning and Lamos during this period, and (2) if Lamos is suspect, the chat logs are meaningless anyways, as they can easily be doctored. How does the release of the full transcript solve either of these problems?
- pmorici 16y agoThey don't, his argument revolves more around the fact that not releasing them is exceedingly suspicious not that their release would be the savior of iron clad truth.
- mikedouglas 16y agoSuspicious, but if you don't trust Lamos, than it's also completely inconsequential to the truth. Evidence is only valuable if, after confirm its existence, your beliefs shift in some direction.
- archgoon 16y agoOne can not trust Lamos, but believe that he didn't have the foresight to work out a consistent story before sending the chat logs to Wire.
- mikedouglas 16y agoIf Lamos's story were consistent, would you be any more likely to believe it? If not, then you already have sufficient evidence that Lamos can't be trusted and you can just point to that. Evidence can't be important if, after learning it, you believe the exact same things.
- jdp23 16y agoAgreed -- although see points by nir and me elsewhere in the thread that it's not actually suspicious that he's not releasing them.
- pmorici 16y agoAlso of note though not specifically enumerated in this article, if you read the linked biography http://govsecinfo.com/events/govsec-2011/Speakers/Speaker%20Window.aspx?SpeakerId={05691608-AB54-45B7-B0DE-7372D9F526F0}&ID={C18700A9-7318-4903-A591-761265B1D934} http://govsecinfo.com/events/govsec-2011/Speakers/Speaker%20... of Mark Rasch, who Salon says facilitated this whole thing, you'll notice his title is, "Director of Cybersecurity and Privacy Consulting, Computer Science Corporation". Computer Science Corporation aka, "CSC" is a major government contractor for IT services. What better way to sell more overpriced crap to the government than to foment a climate of panic around the Wikileaks issue. A problem that CSC no doubt has the perfect multi million dollar enterprise "solution" for. In other words Mark Rasch has a likely significant and surely direct financial interest in making news coverage about Manning as sensationalistic as humanly possible.
- geekinthecorner 16y agoYou're thinking too small. Many billions of dollars will pass through hands as a direct result of Wikileaks. Scare-mongering the government is an effective business strategy when it comes to technology.
- kvs 16y agoIt would also be interesting to see who won the DARPA CINDER: http://www.darpa.mil/sto/solicitations/sn10-68/index.html http://www.darpa.mil/sto/solicitations/sn10-68/index.html this year.
- babeKnuth 16y agoI don't follow. Why would this be interesting?
- ajays 16y agoIf the USG wants to charge Assange with aiding/abetting Manning, then it is in their interest to not have the chat logs released. As long as the chat logs are hidden, the USG can claim that Manning admitted to Lamo that he received some help from Assange, and bingo! Assange can be indicted.
- jdp23 16y agoIf the chat logs say something different and the government lies about it to get an indictment, then it would be a disaster for the prosecution.
- ZachPruckowski 16y agoYes, but this isn't about a trial, this is about the court of public opinion. Getting civilian charges filed and then thrown out on "technical grounds" is almost the best case scenario if you're Pentagon PR. You get to indicit Assange (with loads of press coverage of him in chains to drive home the idea that he's evil and to scare off other whistleblowers and/or journalists) and then you get to blast the inadequacy of civilian courts for national security trials when (a year later) they throw out the case of a guy "everybody knows is guilty" on technical grounds which are far to complex to fit in a sound bite.
- jdp23 16y agoIt's interesting reading the email exchange between Greenwald and Poulsen. To me it looks like Glenn trying bullying trial lawyer tactics: "you have to admit there's something disturbing about all of this" etc. That approach isn't going to work well with Kevin.
- ZachPruckowski 16y agoThere is something point-blank disturbing about it. A journalist has an exclusive on a major news story, and he's making no effort to publish it. In terms of suspiciousness, this is like cats not chasing mice - it's just so far outside normal behavior that you just have to assume something else is in play.
- Vivtek 16y agoDoes anybody but me find it sort of comic-booky that the head of Project Vigilant, a group surveilling the Internet so the government won't have to, is named "Uber"?
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- freejoe76 16y agoSpeaking of disgrace, Salon is prominently featuring ads to scammy sites like hxxp://www.online8report.com/Acai-Berry/ right next to that article.
- joeycfan 16y agoWired started going downhill when it stopped being bi-monthly. Personally, I think it started alright then was taken over by people with a dumb-it-down agenda.
- DanielBMarkham 16y agoOkay I admit to skimming after the tenth paragraph or so, so if I screw up my response I apologize. The article just seemed very wordy, but not so substantive. <snark>But am I to understand that the beef here is that wired is _not_ publishing something that others think they should? So now not only do we need a world with no secrets, we also need a world where the mob can demand that others publish whatever we ask? I know the counter-response will be something like "but they made statements for which we have no support and the chat logs could either prove or refute those statements" To that response, all I have to offer is that there is an active criminal investigation, not carried out in the press or the mob but by due process, and that news sources all the time say things from anonymous sources and such. I don't like it when they do, but I don't think demanding that every news source that uses an anonymous source release their name is very realistic either. I understand that this is an emotionally-charged issue. And folks want to know. But you can rest assured that it will all eventually come out. If that's not fast enough for you, then perhaps a little more patience might help. This whole thing -- the subsequent events to WL and Manning's arrest, including the title of the article here, has the air of a bunch of assholes kicking around folks just to keep their emotions stirred up and readership levels high. It's become the chatty, gossipy topic-of-the-week. If you can't find a juicy enough Wikileaks story, then run a story about the story that doesn't exist. What did they say about cable news during the Monica Lewinsky scandal? It's all Monica, all the time. Wikileaks makes folks crazy, and I have a feeling various news outlets are going to be yanking our chain with this for some time to come. There's money in it, no matter what angle you use.</snark> Feel free to correct me if I've missed something.
- rhizome 16y agoAs far as I know, Wired is not operating under a gag order and they are not a party to the case. It is not illegal or anything to evaluate independently-possessed evidence.
- jdp23 16y agoKevin Poulsen's response on Twitter: Heard there's a measured, mature critique I should respond to. Will look for it tomorrow when I'm back from vacation.
- brown9-2 16y agoCan someone explain this part of the article to me? But after that, The Washington Post's Ellen Nakashima quoted from the chat logs and included several parts that (a) Wired had withheld but (b) were not about personal matters or national security secrets; see this analysis here of what was disclosed by the Post, Wired and others. (Nakashima and the Post refuse even to say whether they possess all the chat logs. When I asked Nakashima several months ago, she referred my inquiry to a corporate spokeswoman, who then told me: "We don't discuss the details of our newsgathering." But I focus here on Poulsen because of his central role in these events, his long-standing relationships with the key parties, and the fact that -- unlike the Post, which obviously has nothing to do with journalism -- I actually expect better of Wired). Is Greenwald saying that the Washington Post "has nothing to do with journalism"? As in, what the WaPo does is not journalism?
- pessimizer 16y agoYes.
- nailer 16y agoGreat article. Flagged as not hacker relevant. Post it to Reddit.
- earnubs 16y agos/--/—/g
- earnubs 16y agoOut of interest am I being down-voted because this is off topic, too short, or because no-one is interested in typesetting and the humble em dash?
- jkava 16y agoWhat's the problem? He has a right not to publish. This article screams "written because I'm mad at Wired." Get your own source and then we'll talk about who's a "journalistic disgrace."
- coreymull 16y agoI usually like Greenwald and in general agree with his argument here. But I sure as hell don't like the ad-homing of Lamo as a mental patient and convicted felon. Not relevant, Glenn.
- olefoo 16y agoI don't know that he's engaging in an ad hominem so much as pointing out that it is unusual for someone who was just released from mental health supervision to be acting as a key witness in a federal prosecution. And Adrian lamo is a convicted felon so that's a factual detail relevant to the story. The thing that makes this story confusing to many people is that there are multiple overlapping contexts in play here. 1. Glenn Greenwald is attempting to hold Kevin Poulsen accountable as a journalist for holding back information relevant to the story and for failing to disclose his ties to other actors who are directly involved in the story. 2. Greenwald is attempting to establish when Lamo began working for the government in this case, and is using parts of the transcript released so far to show that it was probably much earlier than Lamo claims. 3. He's also attempting to show that it's quite likely that the inhumane treatment being afforded to Pfc. Manning is intended to coerce him into implicating others in his criminal activities whether the facts and the law support that implication or not.
- anigbrowl 16y agoI do not have a very high opinion of Glenn Greenwald in general. I mention this not to support my argument but to admit my bias up front. I have other biases as well - about whether this material was leaked, whether it should have been leaked, and whether it should have been published as it has been - but I'm trying to steer clear of such issues here and just address the specific topic of this article. The morality of these leaks is a political question; until there are changes in the law, responsibility for the leaks is a more narrow legal question. For reference, where I talk about the contents of these chat logs I'm referring to the the same source Greenwald does, at http://firedoglake.com/merged-manning-lamo-chat-logs/ http://firedoglake.com/merged-manning-lamo-chat-logs/ That seems like factual summary with zero editorial commentary; citing it is not meant to express any particular view on the site's editorial/political stance. However, it does have some sloppy copyediting (summary descriptions of following section appearing inline as if they were the final line of chat) and seem to be somewhat incomplete, per this BoingBoing story http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/20/was-alleged-wikileak.html http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/20/was-alleged-wikileak.ht... - likely an honest mistake, as BoingBoing's writer apparently edited the transcripts subsequently out a desire to avoid prejudice. Finally, I am not a lawyer, and so these are nothing more than the opinions of an amateur. EDIT: downvoting doesn't bother me, but absent comment I have no idea what part of it you disagreed with... It seems to me that Greenwald is assuming his own conclusion here, that the chat logs provide evidence of Manning's innocence. They could, of course; and I imagine that Manning's Lawyer will subpoena them for just that reason: if he can not get them from Wired, then he can get them from Lamo or the FBI. (Lamo apparently says the FBI took his computer with the logs on them, but until he says so under oath that doesn't mean a thing.) There are alternative possibilities, which Greenwald does not address, that could well justify Wired's withholding other parts of the chat logs and still maintaining a high standard of journalistic ethics. First: the possibility that the logs contain more evidence of Manning's or Assange's guilt. Lamo makes statements to multiple journalistic sources such as the NYT and Washington Post as well as to Wired; so whether Poulsen reports his remarks first or not, the fact that such allegations are being made is a matter of public record. Poulsen neither confirms nor denies Lamo's allegations with reference to the chat logs. Greenwald argues that he should, as Lamo's accusations amount to prosecuting Manning and Assange in public. However, accusations without evidence are just talk. If Poulsen releases the transcripts, many will see the contents as conclusive evidence, whether they support or undermine Lamo's assertions, or even if they are ambiguous. That could make a fair trial for Assange impossible, if indeed he is charged. It could also amount to conducting Manning's (military) trial in public in a way that undermines his rights. As yet, there's no proof that Bradley Manning was 'Bradass87' or that he was the one conducting those conversations (vs someone else using his login, say), or that the logs are a true and unedited copy of actual chats. But the logs that are public already are being treated as the indisputable truth. That they are public makes it very difficult for Manning's lawyer to attack their admissibility as evidence: if he does so, many people will dismiss his arguments as lies. Just the fact that the public logs have the 'feel' of a real conversation is enough for many people to decide they're authentic, for the same reason that people often remember movies better than they do real history. Even if it can be shown that the chat logs are authentic records of conversations between Manning and Lamo, they are only evidence that Manning believed and said certain things to Lamo. As far as the logs talk about Assange, their legal value is that of hearsay evidence. But opponents of Assange will treat such hearsay remarks as proven facts (they're not even close), while his supporters will say none of it is admissible at all because it's hearsay (not true either). Regardless of which side Poulsen or anyone else is on, making that material public risks undermining justice. Personally, I think it would have been better not to release any transcripts at all in order to avoid biasing a trial (either of Manning or of Assange, if he is charged later). Mind, that's very much a personal opinion. I'm also against police releasing mugshots or making people do perp walks because so many assume that criminal defendants must be guilty because they look bad. But suppose, for argument's sake, that there's so much evidence of Manning being the leaker that the facts are not really in question, and that's why Poulsen felt ethically justified in releasing partial transcripts. This leads me towards the other possibility which might have led Poulsen to release only partial transcripts - the question of Manning's motivations. In the published logs he sounds like someone offended by the government's low ethical standards, unhappy in his job situation, and alternatively bragging and remorseful about the magnitude of the revelations. So his defense might go ahead on the basis of 'yes, he broke his oath and leaked all these documents, but he was young and idealistic and believed himself to be acting on a higher purpose, thus he's really only guilty of exercising very poor judgment.' But (in theory) if the unpublished logs include him having a bad day and going on an extended rant to the effect that 'bin Laden was right' or 'the American empire deserves to collapse' or something? Such sentiments are not unknown, and considering that members of Congress have already been calling for the kid's execution - although none of the charges against him carry the death penalty - if evidence of a 'bad' motivation comes before the public there's likely to be lynch mobs forming outside the camp where he's being held. More likely, there's an entirely different set of possible motivations. [Quoting OP article] When I first wrote back in June about Wired's concealment of these chat logs, the excuses Poulsen gave were quickly proved to be false. That's very much a matter of opinion. The parts that were not in Wired's original release which later appeared in the WaPo (orange and red text at the link above) all seem to me to have a bearing on these subjects. 'Sensitive information' could refer to the removal of Assange's name/identifying detail in some places, but mostly Wired's redactions seem to concern such personal matters as Manning's emotions, mental stability, and life situation, which might interpreted as damning or mitigating by different people. Greenwald says several parts are neither, but doesn't say which parts or (more importantly) why he thinks so. The personal information here appears to show Manning as a troubled kid who turned to the army in search of the stability that was missing in his life, but became deeply disillusioned with the institution and country he served. It appears that the army had become disillusioned with Manning too, and that he was being discharged for an 'adjustment disorder.' What that means is uncertain, but there's been a lot of speculation to the effect that Manning was gay or had gender identity issues. That's a pretty contentious subject as far as it relates to the military (see the depth of feeling in the recent debate about repealing DADT) and the extent to which it could have affected Manning personally, and the extent to which any lack of stability on Manning's part would be his fault or that of the army's, are questions which could have a significant bearing on his sentence. And because the issue is very contentious, it tends to split opinion further among those already holding polarized opinions: if you think Manning's a bad person, then his personal hangups may compound his moral failings or be an unacceptable sympathy play; if you think he's a good person, then his personal hangups may be an additional justification for leaking the secrets of an unfairly discriminatory, or an unacceptable attempt to smear him as a sexual deviant. It seems to me that Poulsen decided to publish those parts of the logs which showed Manning's access to, awareness of, and methods for leaking classified information. In other words, the published excerpts offer answers to the question of where multiple different leaks of military and diplomatic information came from (one single intelligence analyst tasked with cross-referencing army intel with that from other branches of government); whether the leaking was a deliberate act, or an accidental result of bureaucratic incompetence (deliberate, with understanding of content, likely publicity, and negative impact); and whether the allegations were credible (obviously the government intranet does not include a 'leak to public?' option, and the weak point was the CD-RW supposedly filled with Lady Gaga tunes (am I the only person who finds this detail bizarrely ironic?)). All this information is concerned with factual issues. Courts-martial have to establish proof beyond a reasonable doubt as do civilian courts, but they differ in terms of things like jury requirements, which may make it easier to deal with the publication of factual evidence than would be the case for a civilian trial. But while it may be easy to prove the acts occurred, mental state, criminal responsibility, and would be an appropriate sentence are much trickier questions. Because such matters are inherently subjective, the standards for evaluating them are different from those for establishing material fact, and there are different risks of potential bias. My guess is that Wired's legal department (rather than Poulsen as an individual) would have gone through the transcripts marking different sections as factual or subjective, with lesser or greater possibilities of bias and thus legal liability for publication.
- phatboyslim 16y agoThis may be too far out there, but does anyone believe that perhaps Poulsen has some closeted sympathy for Manning given his black hat history and subsequent history with law enforcement? I'm not saying that is his motive, but I do wonder if it plays into his decision at all. He once did also actively pursue freedom of information through non-legal means.