4 ms·

My guess is programming is one of the rare white-collar jobs where a non-negligible amount of people don't have college degrees. So there's some resentment/cont

by knolax 7y ago

My guess is programming is one of the rare white-collar jobs where a non-negligible amount of people don't have college degrees. So there's some resentment/contempt/regrets from seeing people who spent massive amounts of money and four years of their lives end up doing the same quality work as highschool drop-outs.

hyperbovine 7y ago
Wouldn't the resentment be going the other way then?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- emiliobumachar 7y ago
  Resentment has a way of spreading itself.
- knolax 7y ago
  I mean as far as I can tell the resentment could come from both those who went to and didn't go to college. Those who didn't go would feel resentment towards peers who are valued more due to what they perceive as signalling while those who did go would feel resentment towards peers who they perceive as lacking foundation or towards colleges themselves for ostensively making them spend time and money for skills their peers gained for free.
HarryHirsch 7y ago
Do the bootcamp graduates really believe they'll be Senior Architect 10 years down the line? They'll be in for a surprise.
- titanomachy 7y ago
  10 years is more than enough time to learn all the CS you missed out on in school, and then some. And architecure is learned more on the job than in school anyway. I went to a bootcamp and it doesn't seem to be holding me back too much. Still moving up the ranks in FANG just like everyone else. I don't feel academically inferior to my colleagues, most of them have gradually forgotten most of what they learned in college anyway. And teaching yourself computer science is challenging but it can be done. (Incidentally I do have a degree, but I didn't study CS.)
  - raegis 7y ago
    Yes, but if your degree was in mathematics or engineering, your example is not as compelling.
- jpgvm 7y ago
  Why? What makes a bootcamp graduate any less qualified than a university graduate? After 10 years experience gained in the field would vastly surpass any differences in fundamentals in my experience.
  - bsder 7y ago
    > After 10 years experience gained in the field would vastly surpass any differences in fundamentals in my experience. Yes and no. If your colleagues are Peter Norvig and Richard Gabriel and you are programming editors and compilers, then you will probably get a Masters (and more useful than most) in CS simply by talking to them on a daily basis and coding your ass off inside a codebase that they're working on, too. The problem is that very few companies have people that good or problems that challenging. If you go to work for an insurance company after a bootcamp, are you going to learn how to build a compiler? (And, call that esoteric and scoff if you will, but I have built a "compiler" several times in my career because it was the best way to transition from a legacy system.) Now, to be fair, maybe nobody cares. If you're rewriting a CRUD app for the umpteenth time in "YetAnotherFrameworkItsBetterThisTimeWePromiseHaHaHa", then it's not going to matter. Knowledge about the current system and all its tendrils is far more valuable than pedantic graph theory. However, that's local system knowledge and has no value outside your current company. The only knowledge that has value to your next employer is domain knowledge--at that includes your baseline CS and programming skill.

by knolax 7y ago

hyperbovine 7y ago

Wouldn't the resentment be going the other way then?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
emiliobumachar 7y ago
Resentment has a way of spreading itself.
knolax 7y ago
I mean as far as I can tell the resentment could come from both those who went to and didn't go to college. Those who didn't go would feel resentment towards peers who are valued more due to what they perceive as signalling while those who did go would feel resentment towards peers who they perceive as lacking foundation or towards colleges themselves for ostensively making them spend time and money for skills their peers gained for free.

HarryHirsch 7y ago

Do the bootcamp graduates really believe they'll be Senior Architect 10 years down the line? They'll be in for a surprise.

titanomachy 7y ago
10 years is more than enough time to learn all the CS you missed out on in school, and then some. And architecure is learned more on the job than in school anyway. I went to a bootcamp and it doesn't seem to be holding me back too much. Still moving up the ranks in FANG just like everyone else. I don't feel academically inferior to my colleagues, most of them have gradually forgotten most of what they learned in college anyway. And teaching yourself computer science is challenging but it can be done. (Incidentally I do have a degree, but I didn't study CS.)
- raegis 7y ago
  Yes, but if your degree was in mathematics or engineering, your example is not as compelling.
jpgvm 7y ago
Why? What makes a bootcamp graduate any less qualified than a university graduate? After 10 years experience gained in the field would vastly surpass any differences in fundamentals in my experience.
- bsder 7y ago
  > After 10 years experience gained in the field would vastly surpass any differences in fundamentals in my experience. Yes and no. If your colleagues are Peter Norvig and Richard Gabriel and you are programming editors and compilers, then you will probably get a Masters (and more useful than most) in CS simply by talking to them on a daily basis and coding your ass off inside a codebase that they're working on, too. The problem is that very few companies have people that good or problems that challenging. If you go to work for an insurance company after a bootcamp, are you going to learn how to build a compiler? (And, call that esoteric and scoff if you will, but I have built a "compiler" several times in my career because it was the best way to transition from a legacy system.) Now, to be fair, maybe nobody cares. If you're rewriting a CRUD app for the umpteenth time in "YetAnotherFrameworkItsBetterThisTimeWePromiseHaHaHa", then it's not going to matter. Knowledge about the current system and all its tendrils is far more valuable than pedantic graph theory. However, that's local system knowledge and has no value outside your current company. The only knowledge that has value to your next employer is domain knowledge--at that includes your baseline CS and programming skill.