6 ms·

Finding materials in nature (e.g. an untouched-by-humans forrest) vs in society (e.g. someones cabin) is not much of a difference if you are not a part of socie

Finding materials in nature (e.g. an untouched-by-humans forrest) vs in society (e.g. someones cabin) is not much of a difference if you are not a part of society. All living things need food and other stuff to sustain its life. You go out, shoot a deer to survive, chop down a tree, and head home and you got some food and supplies. You go out, find a cabin, take some food and other stuff and head home and you've got some food and other supplies. The difference is only significant if you follow the rules of society where we don't take each others stuff. But just like we don't bat an eye when we go out and take the life or supplies from an animal that is not part of society, why should a person or another creature that is not part of society think any different when they go into someones cabin and take food and supplies instead of finding the things in untouched nature? Why craft an axe from raw materials when you can just take the one that something else made that is laying right there in that log of wood?

navigatesol 7y ago
>why should a person or another creature that is not part of society think any different when they go into someones cabin and take food and supplies instead of finding the things in untouched nature? Because the creature or its family isn't going to be planning retribution, like I'd be doing if you broke into my property and stole my stuff.
- jdironman 7y ago
  Ah, the gatherer becomes the hunted.
  - taneq 7y ago
    It's not "gathering" if you're taking things that someone's deliberately prepared for their own future use.
    - FakeComments 7y ago
      Is it inaccurate to say “bears gather honey”?
    - fredsir 7y ago
      So it's not gathering when we pick berries because the plant prepared them for spreading its seeds, not for us to eat and end up in our trash. Or we take the tree where the bird nested in, or the beetle, or the abe? Or when we take whatever else we take that something else prepared for another use? It doesn't fit nicely in our societal view of "yours" and "mine", but whenever you take something, whatever it is, you are almost always taking it away from something else. Surely "thieving" is gathering. It's just a kind of gathering that society has decided is not okay, except in all the cases where society says it's okay, like taking the animals home, or the native humans, and so on.
      - luckylion 7y ago
        > So it's not gathering when we pick berries because the plant prepared them for spreading its seeds The plant isn't someone.
        fredsir 7y ago
        Insignificant detail.
      - mcbutterbunz 7y ago
        > So it's not gathering when we pick berries because the plant prepared them for spreading its seeds, not for us to eat Didn't many berries evolve so that animals would eat the berries and their seeds would end up in their feces? I'm not sure how to say that without it sounding like a cause and effect. Plants didn't _intend_ to evolve so that animals would eat the berries and carry their seeds away, it was more a symbiotic relationship.
        fredsir 7y ago
        Sure. Point being it’s all gathering. No difference when you gather berries or other peoples stuff against their will.
        Noos 7y ago
pizza234 7y ago
> Finding materials in nature (e.g. an untouched-by-humans forrest) vs in society (e.g. someones cabin) is not much of a difference if you are not a part of society. You go out, shoot a deer to survive, chop down a tree, and head home and you got some food and supplies. You go out, find a cabin, take some food and other stuff and head home and you've got some food and other supplies. Or "You go out, eat the wrong food and die", like Christopher McCandless. Thinking there's little or no difference is a gross underestimation of the difficulty of living in the wild. McCandless would have survived if he had cabin food at hand, which means, there's a hell of a difference - a life and death type of difference.
JetezLeLogin 7y ago
In other words, everybody's a parasite on something. Lakota Sioux were buffalo parasites. Vegans are parasites of Daucus carota and Beta vulgaris among other species. Parasites of Homo sapiens are of course hated by that species. People are getting distracted by the whole theft thing. The guy's not awesome, and he's not terrible; he just did what he did, which was unusual. If you're picking up any "he's awesome" or "he's terrible" vibe, that's probably the result of an intentional editorial decision, to drive "engagement" via your admiration or outrage (or envy, which is both).

navigatesol 7y ago

>why should a person or another creature that is not part of society think any different when they go into someones cabin and take food and supplies instead of finding the things in untouched nature? Because the creature or its family isn't going to be planning retribution, like I'd be doing if you broke into my property and stole my stuff.

jdironman 7y ago
Ah, the gatherer becomes the hunted.
- taneq 7y ago
  It's not "gathering" if you're taking things that someone's deliberately prepared for their own future use.
  - FakeComments 7y ago
    Is it inaccurate to say “bears gather honey”?
  - fredsir 7y ago
    So it's not gathering when we pick berries because the plant prepared them for spreading its seeds, not for us to eat and end up in our trash. Or we take the tree where the bird nested in, or the beetle, or the abe? Or when we take whatever else we take that something else prepared for another use? It doesn't fit nicely in our societal view of "yours" and "mine", but whenever you take something, whatever it is, you are almost always taking it away from something else. Surely "thieving" is gathering. It's just a kind of gathering that society has decided is not okay, except in all the cases where society says it's okay, like taking the animals home, or the native humans, and so on.
    - luckylion 7y ago
      > So it's not gathering when we pick berries because the plant prepared them for spreading its seeds The plant isn't someone.
      - fredsir 7y ago
        Insignificant detail.
    - mcbutterbunz 7y ago
      > So it's not gathering when we pick berries because the plant prepared them for spreading its seeds, not for us to eat Didn't many berries evolve so that animals would eat the berries and their seeds would end up in their feces? I'm not sure how to say that without it sounding like a cause and effect. Plants didn't _intend_ to evolve so that animals would eat the berries and carry their seeds away, it was more a symbiotic relationship.
      - fredsir 7y ago
        Sure. Point being it’s all gathering. No difference when you gather berries or other peoples stuff against their will.
        Noos 7y ago

pizza234 7y ago

> Finding materials in nature (e.g. an untouched-by-humans forrest) vs in society (e.g. someones cabin) is not much of a difference if you are not a part of society. You go out, shoot a deer to survive, chop down a tree, and head home and you got some food and supplies. You go out, find a cabin, take some food and other stuff and head home and you've got some food and other supplies. Or "You go out, eat the wrong food and die", like Christopher McCandless. Thinking there's little or no difference is a gross underestimation of the difficulty of living in the wild. McCandless would have survived if he had cabin food at hand, which means, there's a hell of a difference - a life and death type of difference.

JetezLeLogin 7y ago

In other words, everybody's a parasite on something. Lakota Sioux were buffalo parasites. Vegans are parasites of Daucus carota and Beta vulgaris among other species. Parasites of Homo sapiens are of course hated by that species. People are getting distracted by the whole theft thing. The guy's not awesome, and he's not terrible; he just did what he did, which was unusual. If you're picking up any "he's awesome" or "he's terrible" vibe, that's probably the result of an intentional editorial decision, to drive "engagement" via your admiration or outrage (or envy, which is both).