8 ms·

Eastgate Centre, Harare

201 points by zeristor 7y ago

zeristor 7y ago
The HN policy of using the title name makes it difficult to appear interesting. I posted this prompted by a comment discussing the cooling property of solar panels: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20424275 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20424275
- bonzini 7y ago
  Well, I was very curious to see what made a building in Zimbabwe remarkable. Usually you only hear of Zimbabwe because of inflation.
- chki 7y ago
  Actually I would say it's the opposite: if there are some upvotes on a post such as this, I'm very much inclined to find out why an obscure Wikipedia article has made it to the front page. Some weeks ago someone else actually described this concept as a form of clickbait.
csomar 7y ago
I was in Cairo a few years ago and in the old Islamic city there was a couple of big mosques. This dates back to the Islamic era (around 1359). Standing in the venue that separate the two mosques. Here is the location: https://goo.gl/maps/ibwqwb33PcUJvm1K7 https://goo.gl/maps/ibwqwb33PcUJvm1K7 It was in the Summer and Cairo was boiling hot. But interestingly the venue was pretty cool. There was two factors: The mosques shadowed each other in a way that you don't get exposed in the sun. Another factor, there was a cool air flow coming from somewhere(?). My guess would be that the two buildings where engineered to both protect from the sun and generate the airflow. You can sit in the venue all day long and not be annoyed with the hot weather. The buildings themselves where pretty cool inside. I think the question is: Why are we so inefficient today? It's not about looks either: We are building even uglier buildings. The building I'm living in right now is buzzing with air-conditioning units. It's wasteful and it's also an inferior solution (headaches, dry air, only inside is cool, etc...)
- Haga 7y ago
  Your headache is cheaper
- epiphanitus 7y ago
  Whatever happened to architecture that is actually good? Boy, if any of the builders from ancient times were around to see some of the monstrosities we've created.
  - meddlepal 7y ago
    > Boy, if any of the builders from ancient times were around to see some of the monstrosities we've created. They would probably be amazed at some of the structures we can create and others they would just shrug at... but the same can be said for structure of their time.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    > Whatever happened to architecture that is actually good? Customers and economics. A king telling an architect to build the greatest church in the world and mass-produced materials being unavailable resulted in some of the great structures of antiquity. Now, you have a corporation asking how a structure can look distinct while being cheap, and you get the stuff we build. Thank god at least for LEED branding, even if it's a compromise.
    - epiphanitus 7y ago
      True. I would guess that mechanization and cheap building materials displaced craftspeople in the marketplace. I wonder if there's also a cultural explanation as to why movements like brutalism caught on. Even 50 years ago buildings in the US were a lot more elegant than they are today.
      - ethbro 7y ago
        As an almost architecture major, most architectural styles can be better understood by thinking "What's being rejected?" It's a pretty insular culture (less so farther back, moreso the more modern you get), so essentially everyone knows the recent and current style... and then wants their work to be different. When someone hits something that resonates, that gets copied, becomes the new dominant style, and then the cycle repeats. Modernism (and then brutalism) was a rejection of the florid, nature-themed, complex styles that came before. It was literally "less is more." I'd personally say that the longer a style lasts, the more derivative hacks you get with less talent, claiming to be designing in its name.
zeristor 7y ago
This is an interview with the architect: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VIKYjriWgiY https://youtube.com/watch?v=VIKYjriWgiY What comes across is that the client was very keen to do this, is there any reason why there aren’t many other buildings like this? Mention is made of Portcullis House, office by the Houses of Parliament. Are they expensive to design? Just unusual for architects to design? Shouldn’t this be standard where possible?
- rocqua 7y ago
  Glass towers are, if not beautiful, a status symbol. Especially because brick looks stuffy and traditional whilst concrete invokes 80s brutalism. If you want a modern looking facade, glass is an easy choice. Moreover, if temperature is properly controlled, a working or living environment with a lot of sunlight is actually very pleasant. Most people prefer sunlight over artificial light. I guess this combines to suppress demand for the style shown here. I recall seeing similar attempts to make skyscrapers more passively cooled. They seem popular, but are quite expensive.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    Glass is to me very 80s...
    - rocqua 7y ago
      What does a modern building look like for you?
      - toast0 7y ago
        Modern large office buildings these days are mostly glass exterior, but with other prominently visible materials (metal, concrete, maybe wood) as accents. Usually some big diagnol lines or at least visible sections. Older all glass offices present as a single plane of glass, sometimes with light/dark striping. Modern shopping centers, or residential have different looks, of course; although high density high rise residential gets fairly close to high density high rise office.
wojcikstefan 7y ago
I wish the Wikipedia article had more information about the drawbacks of such a solution. The main ones I can think of are cost of design, limited sunlight, and that it's only a viable option in temperate climates, but I'm sure there's more.
qazpot 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawa_Mahal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawa_Mahal Hawa Mahal in India uses venturi effect for cooling.
Buge 7y ago
>Pearce's practice is in Harare, and he specialises in buildings which are low cost, low maintenance, and have low environmental impact. His projects try to make best use of locally available resources, and include Harare International School Arts Centre, Harare Hindoo Temple and Chinhoyi Provincial Hospital, Zimbabwe. This sounds more like the architect's resume than a Wikipedia article.
upofadown 7y ago
A high efficiency high rise for a much less temperate climate that incorporates some of the same ideas: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manitoba_Hydro_Place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manitoba_Hydro_Place
southerndrift 7y ago
On a smaller scale, the concept has been used in the Middle East: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher If there is wind, you don't even need the fans that are used in the basement of the Eastgate Centre.
ahh 7y ago
They said that no direct sunlight must fall on the external walls at all and the north façade [direction of summer sun] window-to-wall area must not exceed 25%. Pass. Natural light (and tons of it!) are a hard requirement for anywhere I actually want to work. (Besides light and airy spaces being generally pleasant, I have mild SAD.) In any case, I'd rather use modern air conditioning, which is stunningly efficient. It also actually produces temperatures I can live in. They don't quote actual interior temperatures (or humidities!) but I'll bet their "acceptable" is 78F+. Anything north of 70 and I am a sweaty mess. (If you're cold, put on a sweater; I can't exactly strip in the office and you wouldn't want to sit next to me anyway!) Complaints about air conditioning are mostly a form of modern self-flagellation. If you're not suffering, you're not doing enough for Gaia. Cost/benefit calculations simply don't enter into it (if they did, someone might point out that eliminating all cooling whatsoever would not even move the needle on US energy. Consider https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/4/13/15268604/american-energy-one-diagram https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/4/13/1526860... and https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=1174&t=1 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=1174&t=1, from which you can see that cooling is 9% of electricity, which is perhaps 38% of total energy usage.)
- Gracana 7y ago
  Sunlight still gets inside, it's just not built like a greenhouse. Search for photos of the interior of the building... it looks lovely. One big benefit that the article mentions is that you get a constant supply of fresh air, vs the recycled air that is typical in air conditioned buildings.
- Nanzikambe 7y ago
  Direct sunlight near equator would be a hard no for anywhere you want to work. Much rather have large/deep overhangs as this building has and most house designs integrate so you have indirect sunlight for most of the day. It will still be very very bright inside with ambient light refracted inward
- dewey 7y ago
  There's a lot of ways to get natural light into a building without having direct exposure to sunlight. An example would be Masdar City: https://www.archdaily.com/517456/inside-masdar-city/539b46a2c07a803df4000810-inside-masdar-city-photo https://www.archdaily.com/517456/inside-masdar-city/539b46a2...
smohnot 7y ago
The tower at PNC in Pittsburgh is a new skyscraper that has a similar solar chimney model and relies on passive aircon for 42% of the year. https://www.architectmagazine.com/awards/r-d-awards/award-the-tower-at-pnc-plaza_o https://www.architectmagazine.com/awards/r-d-awards/award-th...
rezendi 7y ago
I've been to the Eastgate Centre a couple of times and think it's an excellent building -- aside from its passive cooling, its retail space is quite people-friendly and attractive. That said, it's probably worth noting that Harare is not a particularly hot city, courtesy of its altitude (1500m/5000ft.) I wonder if this would be as effective in a truly oppressively hot place like the Horn of Africa.
pazimzadeh 7y ago
Reminds me of Yakhchāl, the 2500 year old Persian "refrigerator." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhch%C4%81l https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhch%C4%81l
JetezLeLogin 7y ago
This building is a masterpiece and a towering (no pun intended) achievement. If I were 18 I would make this my career, and today would be the day I would talk about with journalists 20 years later when they asked where my ideas came from!
kikinam 7y ago
Eastgate centre is one of the most popular houses in the area. I would like to live in the house similar to Eastgate centre. I know that find a house like that is practically impossible, however, you can find the house great to live in online. I just visited <a href="https://pin.tt/realestate/residential-sale/">Pin</a> https://pin.tt/realestate/residential-sale/">Pin</a> and found myself a cool house to rent.
kikinam 7y ago
Eastgate centre is one of the most popular houses in the area. I would like to live in the house similar to Eastgate centre. I know that find a house like that is practically impossible, however, you can find the house great to live in online. I just visited https://pin.tt/realestate/residential-sale/ https://pin.tt/realestate/residential-sale/ and found myself a cool house to rent.

201 points by zeristor 7y ago

The HN policy of using the title name makes it difficult to appear interesting. I posted this prompted by a comment discussing the cooling property of solar panels: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20424275 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20424275

bonzini 7y ago
Well, I was very curious to see what made a building in Zimbabwe remarkable. Usually you only hear of Zimbabwe because of inflation.
chki 7y ago
Actually I would say it's the opposite: if there are some upvotes on a post such as this, I'm very much inclined to find out why an obscure Wikipedia article has made it to the front page. Some weeks ago someone else actually described this concept as a form of clickbait.

csomar 7y ago

I was in Cairo a few years ago and in the old Islamic city there was a couple of big mosques. This dates back to the Islamic era (around 1359). Standing in the venue that separate the two mosques. Here is the location: https://goo.gl/maps/ibwqwb33PcUJvm1K7 https://goo.gl/maps/ibwqwb33PcUJvm1K7 It was in the Summer and Cairo was boiling hot. But interestingly the venue was pretty cool. There was two factors: The mosques shadowed each other in a way that you don't get exposed in the sun. Another factor, there was a cool air flow coming from somewhere(?). My guess would be that the two buildings where engineered to both protect from the sun and generate the airflow. You can sit in the venue all day long and not be annoyed with the hot weather. The buildings themselves where pretty cool inside. I think the question is: Why are we so inefficient today? It's not about looks either: We are building even uglier buildings. The building I'm living in right now is buzzing with air-conditioning units. It's wasteful and it's also an inferior solution (headaches, dry air, only inside is cool, etc...)

Haga 7y ago
Your headache is cheaper
epiphanitus 7y ago
Whatever happened to architecture that is actually good? Boy, if any of the builders from ancient times were around to see some of the monstrosities we've created.
- meddlepal 7y ago
  > Boy, if any of the builders from ancient times were around to see some of the monstrosities we've created. They would probably be amazed at some of the structures we can create and others they would just shrug at... but the same can be said for structure of their time.
- ethbro 7y ago
  > Whatever happened to architecture that is actually good? Customers and economics. A king telling an architect to build the greatest church in the world and mass-produced materials being unavailable resulted in some of the great structures of antiquity. Now, you have a corporation asking how a structure can look distinct while being cheap, and you get the stuff we build. Thank god at least for LEED branding, even if it's a compromise.
  - epiphanitus 7y ago
    True. I would guess that mechanization and cheap building materials displaced craftspeople in the marketplace. I wonder if there's also a cultural explanation as to why movements like brutalism caught on. Even 50 years ago buildings in the US were a lot more elegant than they are today.
    - ethbro 7y ago
      As an almost architecture major, most architectural styles can be better understood by thinking "What's being rejected?" It's a pretty insular culture (less so farther back, moreso the more modern you get), so essentially everyone knows the recent and current style... and then wants their work to be different. When someone hits something that resonates, that gets copied, becomes the new dominant style, and then the cycle repeats. Modernism (and then brutalism) was a rejection of the florid, nature-themed, complex styles that came before. It was literally "less is more." I'd personally say that the longer a style lasts, the more derivative hacks you get with less talent, claiming to be designing in its name.

zeristor 7y ago

This is an interview with the architect: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VIKYjriWgiY https://youtube.com/watch?v=VIKYjriWgiY What comes across is that the client was very keen to do this, is there any reason why there aren’t many other buildings like this? Mention is made of Portcullis House, office by the Houses of Parliament. Are they expensive to design? Just unusual for architects to design? Shouldn’t this be standard where possible?

rocqua 7y ago
Glass towers are, if not beautiful, a status symbol. Especially because brick looks stuffy and traditional whilst concrete invokes 80s brutalism. If you want a modern looking facade, glass is an easy choice. Moreover, if temperature is properly controlled, a working or living environment with a lot of sunlight is actually very pleasant. Most people prefer sunlight over artificial light. I guess this combines to suppress demand for the style shown here. I recall seeing similar attempts to make skyscrapers more passively cooled. They seem popular, but are quite expensive.
- jacobush 7y ago
  Glass is to me very 80s...
  - rocqua 7y ago
    What does a modern building look like for you?
    - toast0 7y ago
      Modern large office buildings these days are mostly glass exterior, but with other prominently visible materials (metal, concrete, maybe wood) as accents. Usually some big diagnol lines or at least visible sections. Older all glass offices present as a single plane of glass, sometimes with light/dark striping. Modern shopping centers, or residential have different looks, of course; although high density high rise residential gets fairly close to high density high rise office.

wojcikstefan 7y ago

I wish the Wikipedia article had more information about the drawbacks of such a solution. The main ones I can think of are cost of design, limited sunlight, and that it's only a viable option in temperate climates, but I'm sure there's more.

qazpot 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawa_Mahal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawa_Mahal Hawa Mahal in India uses venturi effect for cooling.

Buge 7y ago

>Pearce's practice is in Harare, and he specialises in buildings which are low cost, low maintenance, and have low environmental impact. His projects try to make best use of locally available resources, and include Harare International School Arts Centre, Harare Hindoo Temple and Chinhoyi Provincial Hospital, Zimbabwe. This sounds more like the architect's resume than a Wikipedia article.

upofadown 7y ago

A high efficiency high rise for a much less temperate climate that incorporates some of the same ideas: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manitoba_Hydro_Place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manitoba_Hydro_Place

southerndrift 7y ago

On a smaller scale, the concept has been used in the Middle East: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher If there is wind, you don't even need the fans that are used in the basement of the Eastgate Centre.

ahh 7y ago

They said that no direct sunlight must fall on the external walls at all and the north façade [direction of summer sun] window-to-wall area must not exceed 25%. Pass. Natural light (and tons of it!) are a hard requirement for anywhere I actually want to work. (Besides light and airy spaces being generally pleasant, I have mild SAD.) In any case, I'd rather use modern air conditioning, which is stunningly efficient. It also actually produces temperatures I can live in. They don't quote actual interior temperatures (or humidities!) but I'll bet their "acceptable" is 78F+. Anything north of 70 and I am a sweaty mess. (If you're cold, put on a sweater; I can't exactly strip in the office and you wouldn't want to sit next to me anyway!) Complaints about air conditioning are mostly a form of modern self-flagellation. If you're not suffering, you're not doing enough for Gaia. Cost/benefit calculations simply don't enter into it (if they did, someone might point out that eliminating all cooling whatsoever would not even move the needle on US energy. Consider https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/4/13/15268604/american-energy-one-diagram https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/4/13/1526860... and https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=1174&t=1 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=1174&t=1, from which you can see that cooling is 9% of electricity, which is perhaps 38% of total energy usage.)

Gracana 7y ago
Sunlight still gets inside, it's just not built like a greenhouse. Search for photos of the interior of the building... it looks lovely. One big benefit that the article mentions is that you get a constant supply of fresh air, vs the recycled air that is typical in air conditioned buildings.
Nanzikambe 7y ago
Direct sunlight near equator would be a hard no for anywhere you want to work. Much rather have large/deep overhangs as this building has and most house designs integrate so you have indirect sunlight for most of the day. It will still be very very bright inside with ambient light refracted inward
dewey 7y ago
There's a lot of ways to get natural light into a building without having direct exposure to sunlight. An example would be Masdar City: https://www.archdaily.com/517456/inside-masdar-city/539b46a2c07a803df4000810-inside-masdar-city-photo https://www.archdaily.com/517456/inside-masdar-city/539b46a2...

smohnot 7y ago

The tower at PNC in Pittsburgh is a new skyscraper that has a similar solar chimney model and relies on passive aircon for 42% of the year. https://www.architectmagazine.com/awards/r-d-awards/award-the-tower-at-pnc-plaza_o https://www.architectmagazine.com/awards/r-d-awards/award-th...

rezendi 7y ago

I've been to the Eastgate Centre a couple of times and think it's an excellent building -- aside from its passive cooling, its retail space is quite people-friendly and attractive. That said, it's probably worth noting that Harare is not a particularly hot city, courtesy of its altitude (1500m/5000ft.) I wonder if this would be as effective in a truly oppressively hot place like the Horn of Africa.

pazimzadeh 7y ago

Reminds me of Yakhchāl, the 2500 year old Persian "refrigerator." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhch%C4%81l https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhch%C4%81l

JetezLeLogin 7y ago

This building is a masterpiece and a towering (no pun intended) achievement. If I were 18 I would make this my career, and today would be the day I would talk about with journalists 20 years later when they asked where my ideas came from!

kikinam 7y ago

Eastgate centre is one of the most popular houses in the area. I would like to live in the house similar to Eastgate centre. I know that find a house like that is practically impossible, however, you can find the house great to live in online. I just visited <a href="https://pin.tt/realestate/residential-sale/">Pin</a> https://pin.tt/realestate/residential-sale/">Pin</a> and found myself a cool house to rent.

kikinam 7y ago

Eastgate centre is one of the most popular houses in the area. I would like to live in the house similar to Eastgate centre. I know that find a house like that is practically impossible, however, you can find the house great to live in online. I just visited https://pin.tt/realestate/residential-sale/ https://pin.tt/realestate/residential-sale/ and found myself a cool house to rent.