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The argument for capitalism is that it's raising literally billions of people out of extreme poverty - Zizek is clueless if he doesn't get this basic point. If

The argument for capitalism is that it's raising literally billions of people out of extreme poverty - Zizek is clueless if he doesn't get this basic point. If you're a random poor person from China (especially the Chinese interior - urban and coastal areas have their own reasons to distrust too much democracy however), you don't care about democracy, period - capitalism (as in, good business) is your first priority, and basic liberal values (even Xi is focusing on things like fighting corruption and opportunistic behavior - that's the hidden dynamics behind the "social score system" controversy!) come second.

benjaminbrodie 7y ago
At the end of the day people everywhere just want to live meaningful, fulfilling lives. Having the right to vote has no essential bearing on meaning. Most Americans try every means available to get out of jury duty, and last time I checked, turnout rates for NY and SF are below ten percent. If these sacred democratic rights were really so personally valuable to people, how come so many of them don't even bother to exercise them?
- kabwj 7y ago
  People prefer happiness to freedom. I don’t think that democracy is vital to the wellness of a society. It’s just that until now all autocratic societies were ruled by shitheads and they inevitably collapsed. Now we’re seeing an autocratic society that is working fine because it’s being led by intelligent, not-too-selfish people. This is a breath of fresh air since in my opinion democracy is well past its heyday and we have to explore new options.
  - delian66 7y ago
    See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynastic_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynastic_cycle It is just a matter of time for the corruption to set in again.
  - tarsinge 7y ago
    > It’s just that until now all autocratic societies were ruled by shitheads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_IX_of_France#Veneration_as_a_saint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_IX_of_France#Veneration_...
    - kabwj 7y ago
      Sorry, I meant in the last 100 years or so.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      Not to mention that almost all democratic societies also end up cyclically ruled by shitheads and selfish out of touch elites (and we're at that point well now).
  - 0815test 7y ago
    > I don’t think that democracy is vital to the wellness of a society. Well, it depends. If you're well above the typical middle-income country, I think you'd still benefit from more democracy. Democratic countries tend to benefit from increased openness, which is vital to creating wealth and avoiding disruptions of all sorts when you're at the forefront of economic development - and we see this even in historical times where non-democratic polities were far more common.

benjaminbrodie 7y ago

At the end of the day people everywhere just want to live meaningful, fulfilling lives. Having the right to vote has no essential bearing on meaning. Most Americans try every means available to get out of jury duty, and last time I checked, turnout rates for NY and SF are below ten percent. If these sacred democratic rights were really so personally valuable to people, how come so many of them don't even bother to exercise them?

kabwj 7y ago
People prefer happiness to freedom. I don’t think that democracy is vital to the wellness of a society. It’s just that until now all autocratic societies were ruled by shitheads and they inevitably collapsed. Now we’re seeing an autocratic society that is working fine because it’s being led by intelligent, not-too-selfish people. This is a breath of fresh air since in my opinion democracy is well past its heyday and we have to explore new options.
- delian66 7y ago
  See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynastic_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynastic_cycle It is just a matter of time for the corruption to set in again.
- tarsinge 7y ago
  > It’s just that until now all autocratic societies were ruled by shitheads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_IX_of_France#Veneration_as_a_saint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_IX_of_France#Veneration_...
  - kabwj 7y ago
    Sorry, I meant in the last 100 years or so.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    Not to mention that almost all democratic societies also end up cyclically ruled by shitheads and selfish out of touch elites (and we're at that point well now).
- 0815test 7y ago
  > I don’t think that democracy is vital to the wellness of a society. Well, it depends. If you're well above the typical middle-income country, I think you'd still benefit from more democracy. Democratic countries tend to benefit from increased openness, which is vital to creating wealth and avoiding disruptions of all sorts when you're at the forefront of economic development - and we see this even in historical times where non-democratic polities were far more common.