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I'm a big fan of that study. It suggests there may be an opportunity for a company to push rooftop solar for big strip malls and other large footprint single o

I'm a big fan of that study. It suggests there may be an opportunity for a company to push rooftop solar for big strip malls and other large footprint single owner buildings - they aren't utility scale, but the install efficiencies make them pretty competitive. The incentives would be tricky, since the owners are less likely to be paying for utilities than the leaseholders...

qserasera 7y ago
If a moderate sized location goes out of business would solar panels have decent resale value?
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  Well, the prizes for new panels are still falling. And the cost of moving them might be too high.. But even used solar panels will be in demand.
- namibj 7y ago
  Unless you need to demolish, you want to keep them in-place.
  - bartimus 7y ago
    Why would we not want to move them elsewhere?
    - riffraff 7y ago
      They would make the property more valuable when you sell it.
    - pjc50 7y ago
      The panels stay generating even if the shop below has closed. The building remains owned by someone who has a financial interest in keeping them running.
floatrock 7y ago
https://www.wundercapital.com https://www.wundercapital.com The problem with commercial solar is the cost of the financing. Home solar is on par with a car loan, banks know how to do that with personal credit scores. Utility scale solar is the realm of private equity. Something like a strip mall is a weird in-between that requires enough manual review that the cost to do all of the risk analysis that financing requires kinda outweighs the potential returns. Will that KMart or Costco keep that store open for the duration of the project? What happens when the tenancy changes? I don't have any relation with Wunder, but from my understanding of them, they built some stuff to streamline all the financing and permitting required of commercial-scale to make those projects pencil out.
- bwb 7y ago
  Walmart is doing it in a lot of locations. I've heard they also believe if electric cars get going they can offer free recharge with people buying xx dollars of groceries.
  - guntars 7y ago
    Yep, I’ve seen their solar roofs covering the parking spots in Flagstaff, AZ. It’s a win, win - they get power and it keeps the cars cooler.
    - anderspitman 7y ago
      I saw a random magazine 10 years ago that claimed Flagstaff was one of the top 3 "greenest" cities in the US. Prescott (where I'm from) was top 3 skinniest.
- kragen 7y ago
  On the contrary, personal loans from banks routinely charge much higher interest rates than commercial paper. Think about the interest rate on a money market account, which consists of bonds. That's the rate PG&E is going to pay if they float a bond issue to build a solar power station. Large companies, particularly including electric generation utilities, can also get loans from banks at similarly low interest rates. This is precisely the genius of SolarCity: they were able to use the low interest rates banks would charge them to install solar power on people's houses at a much lower cost of capital than the same banks would have charged the same homeowners without SolarCity's intermediation.
BenFrantzDale 7y ago
Wouldn’t one approach be for property managers to lease rooftop space too, making a place for businesses focused on leasing rooftop space, installing solar, and selling power?
diogenescynic 7y ago
Owners of the malls would still hold the rights to the roof, not the occupants of stores, so you’d just have to pay them enough that it’s worthwhile for the owners. However, I like the idea of requiring it for new developments over X square footage.
- Tempest1981 7y ago
  FWIW, California is requiring solar on new homes, in 2020: https://fortune.com/2018/12/06/california-solar-panels-new-homes/ https://fortune.com/2018/12/06/california-solar-panels-new-h... Maybe not as cheap as large-scale solar, but cheaper than natural gas?

qserasera 7y ago

If a moderate sized location goes out of business would solar panels have decent resale value?

hutzlibu 7y ago
Well, the prizes for new panels are still falling. And the cost of moving them might be too high.. But even used solar panels will be in demand.
namibj 7y ago
Unless you need to demolish, you want to keep them in-place.
- bartimus 7y ago
  Why would we not want to move them elsewhere?
  - riffraff 7y ago
    They would make the property more valuable when you sell it.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    The panels stay generating even if the shop below has closed. The building remains owned by someone who has a financial interest in keeping them running.

floatrock 7y ago

https://www.wundercapital.com https://www.wundercapital.com The problem with commercial solar is the cost of the financing. Home solar is on par with a car loan, banks know how to do that with personal credit scores. Utility scale solar is the realm of private equity. Something like a strip mall is a weird in-between that requires enough manual review that the cost to do all of the risk analysis that financing requires kinda outweighs the potential returns. Will that KMart or Costco keep that store open for the duration of the project? What happens when the tenancy changes? I don't have any relation with Wunder, but from my understanding of them, they built some stuff to streamline all the financing and permitting required of commercial-scale to make those projects pencil out.

bwb 7y ago
Walmart is doing it in a lot of locations. I've heard they also believe if electric cars get going they can offer free recharge with people buying xx dollars of groceries.
- guntars 7y ago
  Yep, I’ve seen their solar roofs covering the parking spots in Flagstaff, AZ. It’s a win, win - they get power and it keeps the cars cooler.
  - anderspitman 7y ago
    I saw a random magazine 10 years ago that claimed Flagstaff was one of the top 3 "greenest" cities in the US. Prescott (where I'm from) was top 3 skinniest.
kragen 7y ago
On the contrary, personal loans from banks routinely charge much higher interest rates than commercial paper. Think about the interest rate on a money market account, which consists of bonds. That's the rate PG&E is going to pay if they float a bond issue to build a solar power station. Large companies, particularly including electric generation utilities, can also get loans from banks at similarly low interest rates. This is precisely the genius of SolarCity: they were able to use the low interest rates banks would charge them to install solar power on people's houses at a much lower cost of capital than the same banks would have charged the same homeowners without SolarCity's intermediation.

BenFrantzDale 7y ago

Wouldn’t one approach be for property managers to lease rooftop space too, making a place for businesses focused on leasing rooftop space, installing solar, and selling power?

diogenescynic 7y ago

Owners of the malls would still hold the rights to the roof, not the occupants of stores, so you’d just have to pay them enough that it’s worthwhile for the owners. However, I like the idea of requiring it for new developments over X square footage.

Tempest1981 7y ago
FWIW, California is requiring solar on new homes, in 2020: https://fortune.com/2018/12/06/california-solar-panels-new-homes/ https://fortune.com/2018/12/06/california-solar-panels-new-h... Maybe not as cheap as large-scale solar, but cheaper than natural gas?