6 ms·

Bird isn't responsible for securing the load on a truck. They need to go after the driver of the truck that dropped them - he has liability insurance, or his em

Bird isn't responsible for securing the load on a truck. They need to go after the driver of the truck that dropped them - he has liability insurance, or his employer does.

btrettel 7y ago
My experience suggests that Bird won't tell the victim the identity of the guilty party even if they know it. Here's a video of a Bird scooter rider running a red light and almost causing a collision with me, a cyclist: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19Bl1ZhMvxbLliIyNkNe_Aj3QWDbPznzp https://drive.google.com/open?id=19Bl1ZhMvxbLliIyNkNe_Aj3QWD... I contacted Bird and while they did look at the video and seemed sympathetic, I got the impression that nothing was done in response. That's because they refused to tell me even simple things like "The rider was reprimanded". I didn't ask for the rider's identity, just for what was done in response. And I contacted them within an hour of the incident, providing precise time, location, and the video above, so I'm very confident they knew who the rider was. (Sorry for the strong language in the video. Note that I included some time before the incident because I know from experience that some people always seem to suggest that if a cyclist had a bad time on the road it was because they antagonized who gave them a bad time. I hope it's clear that I had no contact with this guy before the video.)
- stefco_ 7y ago
  To be fair, this kind of idiocy is in no way limited to scooters. In NYC we don't have Bird yet but we do have tons of delivery people on bikes (electric and traditional) that do stuff even more dangerous than this. One time while I was coming off of a steep downhill a delivery guy wheeled his bike out from between two parked cars without looking either way, and another delivery guy who was about 30 feet in front of me hit the bike, went over the handlebars, and smashed his face on the ground. He was visibly dazed for minutes after and bleeding from his head; it would have happened to me if I was about a second ahead of where I was. I've also had electric bikes whiz by about 2 feet from me on the sidewalk at 20+mph many times. They are nearly silent, so it's easy to imagine abruptly turning around or shifting over (as pedestrians are wont to do) and very getting severely injured. I've seen plenty of other awful and dangerous behavior in addition. Fortunately, I don't see this as much with non-delivery cyclists. In NYC at least, this is mostly a problem with delivery people; the extreme pressure they are under to deliver on time, combined with the fact that many of them have clearly received no safety training, seems to be a major cause. NYC's bad cyclists (and, in the future, bad scooterists) are actually scarier to me than NYC drivers because they can come at you from so many more angles thanks to their small size; it's much easier to predict and avoid cars and even pedestrians. (People are also used to cyclists here, so the cars are paradoxically not nearly as scary to me as they are in less dense environments.) [edited to clarify that I was also on a bike]
  - btrettel 7y ago
    Yes, I agree that delivery folks can be particularly dangerous. I also watch out for ridershare drivers as they are frequently distracted by their phone and in a rush. The small size was a major problem here. I probably would have seen the scooter rider earlier if they were a driver running the red light. I now always check for red light runners at that intersection. (As for how visible I was, I was wearing a hi-viz jacket at the time. My air horn seems to have been the only thing that caught the scooter guy's attention. Not sure what more I could do.)
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- bb88 7y ago
  For those that don't want to watch the video: 1. Bird rider runs a red light. 2. Bird rider has head phones on. 3. Bird rider doesn't bother to look at oncoming traffic before crossing. It's clear to me from this thread, that scooter riders need insurance and a driver's license. That would solve 90% of the issues right there.
  - gnopgnip 7y ago
    Motorized scooter riders in CA are required to have a drivers license and wear a helmet. Most states do not require insurance for motorized scooters that cannot go more than 25MPH.
- techslave 7y ago
  of course they wouldn’t, voluntarily. and you shouldn’t want them to. under subpoena however, they would have to.
  - btrettel 7y ago
    Yes, I thought about that after posting. I don't think they should give the identity of a user to some random person. For what it's worth, I didn't ask for the Bird rider's identity, and I don't see a good reason why they couldn't have told me whether the rider was reprimanded. I suspect that the rider wasn't reprimanded and they didn't want to lie to me.
lightbritefight 7y ago
Bird most likey is the "employer." They have a gig economy model where people are paid a rate per scooter to pick them up, charge them and drop them off at a specific location. Its doubtful the truck driver was an employee of bird, but its also likely they were only moving the scooters because of this model. That sounds like enough of a reason to add them to the suit that will also likely hit the driver.
- bredren 7y ago
  Yes—if Bird’s business model requires the transportation of the vehicles by contractors, Bird is responsible for requiring parameters of safe transport.
- delinka 7y ago
  In such a case, I would agree. I was thinking "some random vehicle (perhaps a scooter thief) had a Bird scooter fall off."

Bird isn't responsible for securing the load on a truck. They need to go after the driver of the truck that dropped them - he has liability insurance, or his employer does.

btrettel 7y ago

My experience suggests that Bird won't tell the victim the identity of the guilty party even if they know it. Here's a video of a Bird scooter rider running a red light and almost causing a collision with me, a cyclist: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19Bl1ZhMvxbLliIyNkNe_Aj3QWDbPznzp https://drive.google.com/open?id=19Bl1ZhMvxbLliIyNkNe_Aj3QWD... I contacted Bird and while they did look at the video and seemed sympathetic, I got the impression that nothing was done in response. That's because they refused to tell me even simple things like "The rider was reprimanded". I didn't ask for the rider's identity, just for what was done in response. And I contacted them within an hour of the incident, providing precise time, location, and the video above, so I'm very confident they knew who the rider was. (Sorry for the strong language in the video. Note that I included some time before the incident because I know from experience that some people always seem to suggest that if a cyclist had a bad time on the road it was because they antagonized who gave them a bad time. I hope it's clear that I had no contact with this guy before the video.)

stefco_ 7y ago
To be fair, this kind of idiocy is in no way limited to scooters. In NYC we don't have Bird yet but we do have tons of delivery people on bikes (electric and traditional) that do stuff even more dangerous than this. One time while I was coming off of a steep downhill a delivery guy wheeled his bike out from between two parked cars without looking either way, and another delivery guy who was about 30 feet in front of me hit the bike, went over the handlebars, and smashed his face on the ground. He was visibly dazed for minutes after and bleeding from his head; it would have happened to me if I was about a second ahead of where I was. I've also had electric bikes whiz by about 2 feet from me on the sidewalk at 20+mph many times. They are nearly silent, so it's easy to imagine abruptly turning around or shifting over (as pedestrians are wont to do) and very getting severely injured. I've seen plenty of other awful and dangerous behavior in addition. Fortunately, I don't see this as much with non-delivery cyclists. In NYC at least, this is mostly a problem with delivery people; the extreme pressure they are under to deliver on time, combined with the fact that many of them have clearly received no safety training, seems to be a major cause. NYC's bad cyclists (and, in the future, bad scooterists) are actually scarier to me than NYC drivers because they can come at you from so many more angles thanks to their small size; it's much easier to predict and avoid cars and even pedestrians. (People are also used to cyclists here, so the cars are paradoxically not nearly as scary to me as they are in less dense environments.) [edited to clarify that I was also on a bike]
- btrettel 7y ago
  Yes, I agree that delivery folks can be particularly dangerous. I also watch out for ridershare drivers as they are frequently distracted by their phone and in a rush. The small size was a major problem here. I probably would have seen the scooter rider earlier if they were a driver running the red light. I now always check for red light runners at that intersection. (As for how visible I was, I was wearing a hi-viz jacket at the time. My air horn seems to have been the only thing that caught the scooter guy's attention. Not sure what more I could do.)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
bb88 7y ago
For those that don't want to watch the video: 1. Bird rider runs a red light. 2. Bird rider has head phones on. 3. Bird rider doesn't bother to look at oncoming traffic before crossing. It's clear to me from this thread, that scooter riders need insurance and a driver's license. That would solve 90% of the issues right there.
- gnopgnip 7y ago
  Motorized scooter riders in CA are required to have a drivers license and wear a helmet. Most states do not require insurance for motorized scooters that cannot go more than 25MPH.
techslave 7y ago
of course they wouldn’t, voluntarily. and you shouldn’t want them to. under subpoena however, they would have to.
- btrettel 7y ago
  Yes, I thought about that after posting. I don't think they should give the identity of a user to some random person. For what it's worth, I didn't ask for the Bird rider's identity, and I don't see a good reason why they couldn't have told me whether the rider was reprimanded. I suspect that the rider wasn't reprimanded and they didn't want to lie to me.

lightbritefight 7y ago

Bird most likey is the "employer." They have a gig economy model where people are paid a rate per scooter to pick them up, charge them and drop them off at a specific location. Its doubtful the truck driver was an employee of bird, but its also likely they were only moving the scooters because of this model. That sounds like enough of a reason to add them to the suit that will also likely hit the driver.

bredren 7y ago
Yes—if Bird’s business model requires the transportation of the vehicles by contractors, Bird is responsible for requiring parameters of safe transport.
delinka 7y ago
In such a case, I would agree. I was thinking "some random vehicle (perhaps a scooter thief) had a Bird scooter fall off."