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I've gotten into a long, annoying fight with my insurance company about whether they would cover a certain procedure. The dumb thing is, the bill won't hit my

I've gotten into a long, annoying fight with my insurance company about whether they would cover a certain procedure. The dumb thing is, the bill won't hit my deductible cap for the year! (The procedure was done in 2018.) So, in any case, I will pay the full bill and the insurance company will pay nothing. But if the insurance company processes the bill, then I get the "discount". This is mind-bogglingly stupid.

avs733 7y ago
It's actually brilliant rent seeking. Evil but brilliant. They provide no service and negative value for the user. In exchange they help large employers maintain a way to restrict employee movement and value for shareholders. Honestly blue Cross blue shield is just like Facebook ..users are the product not the customer.
- specialist 7y ago
  Illuminating analogy, thank you.
colechristensen 7y ago
You might be able to negotiate with the medical provider itself. Say you want to pay without insurance and ask about the cost and doing any reductions. The number on the bill before the insurance discount is entirely imaginary, no one pays it. There is always a built in cash discount for people without insurance. For example, for a while I was having trouble getting insurance cards (stupid reasons) at a new position so I was paying out of pocket for prescriptions and office visits. They were less expensive paying cash than with insurance pre-deductible.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  > The number on the bill before the insurance discount is entirely imaginary, no one pays it. Until they don't pay it. Then that entirely imaginary number becomes a very real debt that gets sold and reported.
- impendia 7y ago
  I did call them. They said they would be able to lower the rate from 2.5x the insurance rate (which is what they billed me for) to 1.7x. I was all set to settle my bill actually, but the woman in billing (at the doctor's office) urged me to not give up and file another appeal. Apparently even she agrees that this is bullshit. The whole experience has been surreal.
LorenPechtel 7y ago
I had a run-in like that some years back. The insurance was rejecting the bill as a duplicate (it wasn't, the doctor legitimately ordered the test done on three different samples. Two got processed on the same day.) The lab wouldn't just accept the negotiated rate and just kept re-billing without listening to me telling them what they were doing wrong, the insurance wouldn't budge and simply "pay" it ($0 out of their pocket) on my assurance it was legit. I ended up with the last laugh, though--eventually the insurance rejected it as billed too late, denied, drop it. Instead of collecting the negotiated rate they got $0.

avs733 7y ago

It's actually brilliant rent seeking. Evil but brilliant. They provide no service and negative value for the user. In exchange they help large employers maintain a way to restrict employee movement and value for shareholders. Honestly blue Cross blue shield is just like Facebook ..users are the product not the customer.

specialist 7y ago
Illuminating analogy, thank you.

colechristensen 7y ago

You might be able to negotiate with the medical provider itself. Say you want to pay without insurance and ask about the cost and doing any reductions. The number on the bill before the insurance discount is entirely imaginary, no one pays it. There is always a built in cash discount for people without insurance. For example, for a while I was having trouble getting insurance cards (stupid reasons) at a new position so I was paying out of pocket for prescriptions and office visits. They were less expensive paying cash than with insurance pre-deductible.

FireBeyond 7y ago
> The number on the bill before the insurance discount is entirely imaginary, no one pays it. Until they don't pay it. Then that entirely imaginary number becomes a very real debt that gets sold and reported.
impendia 7y ago
I did call them. They said they would be able to lower the rate from 2.5x the insurance rate (which is what they billed me for) to 1.7x. I was all set to settle my bill actually, but the woman in billing (at the doctor's office) urged me to not give up and file another appeal. Apparently even she agrees that this is bullshit. The whole experience has been surreal.

LorenPechtel 7y ago

I had a run-in like that some years back. The insurance was rejecting the bill as a duplicate (it wasn't, the doctor legitimately ordered the test done on three different samples. Two got processed on the same day.) The lab wouldn't just accept the negotiated rate and just kept re-billing without listening to me telling them what they were doing wrong, the insurance wouldn't budge and simply "pay" it ($0 out of their pocket) on my assurance it was legit. I ended up with the last laugh, though--eventually the insurance rejected it as billed too late, denied, drop it. Instead of collecting the negotiated rate they got $0.