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> The US needs to heavily encourage these sorts of improvements to buildings, it's good for everyone. Is it though? I imagine your landlord doesn't think it's

> The US needs to heavily encourage these sorts of improvements to buildings, it's good for everyone. Is it though? I imagine your landlord doesn't think it's good for them. It's not bad for them, but why would they spend hundreds or thousands of dollars improving your apartments insulation when it costs them nothing to keep the poor thermal in place. I too lived in rentals that had terrible thermal protection. It was awful to heat and cool. Yet, my landlords wouldn't have spent a dime to improve that. Not sure what can be done here, but with seemingly more and more homes becoming rentals this perhaps needs a solution.

mixmastamyk 7y ago
They are upgrading the windows in this neighborhood. First they kick you out, do the work, then charge the next tenant (rent + 1000).
the8472 7y ago
> Not sure what can be done here Tax based on efficiency. Tie permits for building renovation to insulation upgrades.
Chirael 7y ago
If two or three tenants in a row move out and cite sky high power costs due to poor insulation as the reason, the landlord will notice and do something about it. One tenant is a fluke, several all saying the same thing over a few years is a problem that will get dealt with. Nothing costs a landlord money like high turnover. But departing tenants DO need to communicate that as the issue, otherwise the landlord would never really know since s/he isn’t the one paying the bill.
- gregable 7y ago
  Do tenants really decide like that? Moving is costly and insulation is hard to judge on a tour?
  - Dumblydorr 7y ago
    In providence RI my friends and I rented a 3 BR 2nd floor of a duplex. The heating cost was insanity. The rent itself was 1350 per month and the oil heating in the winter cost us 3600, which is 100 per month added onto my 450 share for the entire year. I left that year, my roomies stayed and begged the landlord to switch, the oil heater was wicked old and inefficient. He said no, he didn't care. They moved due to that. So yes, it did cost him, probly the months worth of rent that he lost due to the realtors finders fee.
cosmodisk 7y ago
I live in London nowadays. When brosing rental properties,the first thing I check in photos is whether it has normal radiators ( gas heating). If I see electric ones, I move on to the next property.Also rent is much cheaper on these...
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  I'd imagine that thins out your choices quite quickly, in my area it seems landlords love storage heaters. I think some of the Scandinavian countries have banned these heaters.
duderific 7y ago
They can potentially raise the rent (for the next renter if there's rent control) by advertising "modern double pane windows" which offer sound insulation from outside noise, in addition to the thermal benefits.
- namibj 7y ago
  And here we upgrade to tripe pane. Get european/german windows, or something like them. They are worth the money.
- krferriter 7y ago
  They definitely could raise rents if offering thermal and noise insulated living environment. The quality of living goes up drastically with that, so it would make sense.
sagarm 7y ago
Require landlords to pay for heat? That would align incentives somewhat, though then the tenant has no incentive to be efficient. A 50/50 split might work, since landlord is responsible for energy efficiency of the home and the tenant is responsible for setting the thermostat sanely?
- RhodesianHunter 7y ago
  1. Move into home like this 2. Set up Bitcoin mining rig 3. Profit, since you only have to pay half of the utility bill
  - Dumblydorr 7y ago
    4. Lose profits when landlord charges you for excessive use
  - krferriter 7y ago
    On my university campus, the university covers electricity, but will flag you and inspect your room for banned equipment if you use too much. They do the same for internet usage. You're explicitly banned from running server racks, or microwaves or refridgerators other than the ones they provide in the rooms which have a particular wattage. A landlord could do the same.
lrem 7y ago
All rental search sites I've used in my life have energy bill estimation right there. Where I live now, the law requires including that in the advertised price.
krferriter 7y ago
In my particular case I'm renting a house, so it is probably more directly important to the landlord to insulate the house than if it were a large apartment building. The resale value for the house goes up steeply with well-insulated windows. Also the quality of life inside the house improves with better insulation and can therefore potentially draw a slightly higher rent. Also the landlord will have to replace the AC and heating unit less frequently, and those things are expensive. However there are also indirect benefits to improving insulation generally. First of all there is less fossil fuel pollution since much of the US is still mostly on fossil fuel power, so reducing electrical demand has a positive impact on air quality and atmospheric carbon dioxide. Also a lower load on the local power grid reduces operating costs and reduces wear on grid equipment, reducing frequency of part replacements. Also AC units tend to be pretty loud since they're running fairly large compressors, and themselves generate heat outside the house, and though these factors may be small they do contribute to both noise and heat pollution. I think a subsidy for energy efficiencyizing buildings in various ways should be provided, I know they have been in limited ways before. Regulating new construction to ensure a base level of heat exchange resistance would be another way.

mixmastamyk 7y ago

They are upgrading the windows in this neighborhood. First they kick you out, do the work, then charge the next tenant (rent + 1000).

the8472 7y ago

> Not sure what can be done here Tax based on efficiency. Tie permits for building renovation to insulation upgrades.

Chirael 7y ago

If two or three tenants in a row move out and cite sky high power costs due to poor insulation as the reason, the landlord will notice and do something about it. One tenant is a fluke, several all saying the same thing over a few years is a problem that will get dealt with. Nothing costs a landlord money like high turnover. But departing tenants DO need to communicate that as the issue, otherwise the landlord would never really know since s/he isn’t the one paying the bill.

gregable 7y ago
Do tenants really decide like that? Moving is costly and insulation is hard to judge on a tour?
- Dumblydorr 7y ago
  In providence RI my friends and I rented a 3 BR 2nd floor of a duplex. The heating cost was insanity. The rent itself was 1350 per month and the oil heating in the winter cost us 3600, which is 100 per month added onto my 450 share for the entire year. I left that year, my roomies stayed and begged the landlord to switch, the oil heater was wicked old and inefficient. He said no, he didn't care. They moved due to that. So yes, it did cost him, probly the months worth of rent that he lost due to the realtors finders fee.

cosmodisk 7y ago

I live in London nowadays. When brosing rental properties,the first thing I check in photos is whether it has normal radiators ( gas heating). If I see electric ones, I move on to the next property.Also rent is much cheaper on these...

tonyedgecombe 7y ago
I'd imagine that thins out your choices quite quickly, in my area it seems landlords love storage heaters. I think some of the Scandinavian countries have banned these heaters.

duderific 7y ago

They can potentially raise the rent (for the next renter if there's rent control) by advertising "modern double pane windows" which offer sound insulation from outside noise, in addition to the thermal benefits.

namibj 7y ago
And here we upgrade to tripe pane. Get european/german windows, or something like them. They are worth the money.
krferriter 7y ago
They definitely could raise rents if offering thermal and noise insulated living environment. The quality of living goes up drastically with that, so it would make sense.

sagarm 7y ago

Require landlords to pay for heat? That would align incentives somewhat, though then the tenant has no incentive to be efficient. A 50/50 split might work, since landlord is responsible for energy efficiency of the home and the tenant is responsible for setting the thermostat sanely?

RhodesianHunter 7y ago
1. Move into home like this 2. Set up Bitcoin mining rig 3. Profit, since you only have to pay half of the utility bill
- Dumblydorr 7y ago
  4. Lose profits when landlord charges you for excessive use
- krferriter 7y ago
  On my university campus, the university covers electricity, but will flag you and inspect your room for banned equipment if you use too much. They do the same for internet usage. You're explicitly banned from running server racks, or microwaves or refridgerators other than the ones they provide in the rooms which have a particular wattage. A landlord could do the same.

lrem 7y ago

All rental search sites I've used in my life have energy bill estimation right there. Where I live now, the law requires including that in the advertised price.

krferriter 7y ago

In my particular case I'm renting a house, so it is probably more directly important to the landlord to insulate the house than if it were a large apartment building. The resale value for the house goes up steeply with well-insulated windows. Also the quality of life inside the house improves with better insulation and can therefore potentially draw a slightly higher rent. Also the landlord will have to replace the AC and heating unit less frequently, and those things are expensive. However there are also indirect benefits to improving insulation generally. First of all there is less fossil fuel pollution since much of the US is still mostly on fossil fuel power, so reducing electrical demand has a positive impact on air quality and atmospheric carbon dioxide. Also a lower load on the local power grid reduces operating costs and reduces wear on grid equipment, reducing frequency of part replacements. Also AC units tend to be pretty loud since they're running fairly large compressors, and themselves generate heat outside the house, and though these factors may be small they do contribute to both noise and heat pollution. I think a subsidy for energy efficiencyizing buildings in various ways should be provided, I know they have been in limited ways before. Regulating new construction to ensure a base level of heat exchange resistance would be another way.