6 ms·

Have you been to SF or LA or Seattle? The crisis we are experiencing isn't because rents are too high. That's a separate crisis affecting a different set of peo

Have you been to SF or LA or Seattle? The crisis we are experiencing isn't because rents are too high. That's a separate crisis affecting a different set of people. The crisis this article is discussing, the really really bad homelessness problem, comes in two forms: drug addiction and mental illness. These people could not stay in an apartment if it cost $50 a month. Their problems are far, far worse than poverty.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
DubiousPusher 7y ago
The groups 'homeless due to housing affordability' and 'homeless due to mental health or drug problems' As housing prices rise, there are people with mental health or drug issues who are largely stable who lose their housing and then become unstable. There are government organizations and nonprofits that can now provide less units of housing to the same people because their money doesn't go as far. There are people who are just at the edge of stability and whom their local community is stabalizing and for whom moving to new affordable housing destabilizes. There are halfway houses that seeing too many needful people turn out problematic people they might've otherwise tolerated because they can bring in less problematic people who equally need help.
- dodobirdlord 7y ago
  Sure, some number of such people surely exist, but do we have a particular reason to believe that it's actually a significant number? On these sorts of major issues of policy a couple hundred people here and there are a rounding error. There's no end of controversy about the various methods of counting what percent of homeless people in high cost of living areas are "non-native"; everyone running such studies has an agenda, but the impression I've gotten is that there is consensus that it's upwards of 50%. It seems implausible that a significant number of people have been driven from a stable life to mental illness wracked visible homelessness by the skyrocketing cost of housing in a small number of major cities.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    I don't find it implausible. Living in a broken society is crazy making. Doing everything you think and get told you "should" do to succeed and life coming apart at the seams anyway is crazy making. Poor nutrition because you have can't make ends meet after paying your ridiculous student loans that were supposed to propel you to a better life takes its toll. Etc ad nauseum. We've created a society that chews people up and spits them out. Then we act like it's a personal problem when they crack under the pressure.
    - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
      I hear you but as an immigrant, I can’t relate. Maybe immigrants are grittier and scrappy, but when the going gets tough, we get out of Dodge and go anywhere else where we can not just survive but thrive. Oh my goodness! America is huge and you don’t need to apply for a visa to go to another state. And you are free to move around anywhere and enjoy certain fundamental benefits that is available to all. When I first came to this country 22 years ago, I first lost my shit and then my mind when I found out that libraries are free! And anyone can checkout handfuls of books. I remember paying a monthly fee for a library card in India and can get only two books at a time. Standing in line outside American embassy and British council after school because you can’t fins Time magazine or Nat Geo elsewhere because they were expensive publication. Non vernaculars were not widely available. The Russian consulate had second Saturday chess matches and my mother would take me by bus and if I had a good play, I would get treated with ice cream. I rented a computer for a month when I found out what TCP/IP was and then had to get a phone connection for which the deposit was as much as our monthly rent. I would hazard a guess that most immigrants would call the above problems mentioned as an uniquely first world complaint. Poverty, lack of opportunities..poor nutrition? It’s all crazy sounding to most of us. I remember when I studied for my college exams under candle light because the power grid in my Indian city was unreliable. And it’s not like I am quoting a Monty Python skit. I won’t even get started about nutrition. It would literally sound like a MP skit. Student loans? My mother went into personal debt to put me through school and college. And she was a single mother. I can’t wrap my mind around what I see here in America. It is entirely unrelatable. It’s like..the country is a gazelle that has never been taught survival skills to be alive in the wild. And then...boom!!.. life happens. I hear you but I want to let you know that for majority of people in the world, this would sound utterly bizarre and they’d gladly swap places with you. No disrespect. Just a different perspective.
ElderKorihor 7y ago
That theory is hard to square with the dramatic rise over the past 10-20 years. I remember when folks were alarmed at Nickelsville popping up. Now that's way under the noise floor.
- munificent 7y ago
  > That theory is hard to square with the dramatic rise over the past 10-20 years. How so? That exactly lines up with the timeframe of the opioid crisis. Anecdotally, a large fraction of the RVs I see in my neighborhood are surrounded by needle caps and bike parts. The odds of those being drug-free cycling afficionados seem slim to me.
  - mulmen 7y ago
    Unrelated but does anyone understand the stolen bicycle economy? I understand there is infinite supply but where is the demand?
    - munificent 7y ago
      This is something I wish I understood better too. Someone has to end up buying the parts for some reason other than drugs for it not to be a closed system. I read this article a while back: https://www.seattlemet.com/articles/2014/10/1/this-is-what-happens-to-your-bike-after-its-stolen-october-2014 https://www.seattlemet.com/articles/2014/10/1/this-is-what-h... It points out a shady bike shop and Craigslist sellers, but not much beyond that. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the economy doesn't function. Thieves sell bikes to others who think they'll be able to resell them or trade them for drugs, eventually find out they can't and trash them. On the other hand, I've seen RVs with dozens of bike frames leaning against them. I assume they wouldn't work at that scale if it wasn't worth it.
      - mulmen 7y ago
        This makes me wonder if anyone tried describing cryptocurrency to a bicycle thief.
50656E6973 7y ago
Is there a greater causation or correlation for mental illness and drug adddiction than poverty?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
dgzl 7y ago
I disagree with this, I think high cost of living has a lot to do with people's inability to take care of themselves. Drugs aren't necessarily the avenue people take to become homeless, but when you do become homeless your peers become people who generally do use drugs.
- tathougies 7y ago
  How much do you think rent needs to be so that the homeless can find housing? Because I can guarantee you that I've probably could find a place for that price, even in the bay area. In my experience, as someone who has spent some years in the bay area and who has always had under market rent, housing is quite cheap, most people just don't want it.
  - dgzl 7y ago
    What do you mean they don't want it? Because there's something lacking?
    - tathougies 7y ago
      It's not the American ideal of a completely private, individual house/apartment. Living with roommates is seen as subpar or not a good choice for an adult.
      - dgzl 7y ago
        I see what you mean. I've been moving quite a bit last few years, and the biggest factor that's prevented me from moving into a shared living spaces is my physical belongings. It's difficult moving a small apartment worth of items into an already established home. Or otherwise, establish a place and find renters with a complimentary set of belongings. I suppose practicing minimalism would get facilitate this.
        tathougies 7y ago
        Well if you want stuff, you have to pay to have it. We falsely think that acquiring things is a one-time cost. While true that owning something typically has a lower total cost of ownership, the relationship is not as cut and dry as often made out. For most people, renting certain things that they currently own would be a better use of resources.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

DubiousPusher 7y ago

The groups 'homeless due to housing affordability' and 'homeless due to mental health or drug problems' As housing prices rise, there are people with mental health or drug issues who are largely stable who lose their housing and then become unstable. There are government organizations and nonprofits that can now provide less units of housing to the same people because their money doesn't go as far. There are people who are just at the edge of stability and whom their local community is stabalizing and for whom moving to new affordable housing destabilizes. There are halfway houses that seeing too many needful people turn out problematic people they might've otherwise tolerated because they can bring in less problematic people who equally need help.

dodobirdlord 7y ago
Sure, some number of such people surely exist, but do we have a particular reason to believe that it's actually a significant number? On these sorts of major issues of policy a couple hundred people here and there are a rounding error. There's no end of controversy about the various methods of counting what percent of homeless people in high cost of living areas are "non-native"; everyone running such studies has an agenda, but the impression I've gotten is that there is consensus that it's upwards of 50%. It seems implausible that a significant number of people have been driven from a stable life to mental illness wracked visible homelessness by the skyrocketing cost of housing in a small number of major cities.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  I don't find it implausible. Living in a broken society is crazy making. Doing everything you think and get told you "should" do to succeed and life coming apart at the seams anyway is crazy making. Poor nutrition because you have can't make ends meet after paying your ridiculous student loans that were supposed to propel you to a better life takes its toll. Etc ad nauseum. We've created a society that chews people up and spits them out. Then we act like it's a personal problem when they crack under the pressure.
  - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
    I hear you but as an immigrant, I can’t relate. Maybe immigrants are grittier and scrappy, but when the going gets tough, we get out of Dodge and go anywhere else where we can not just survive but thrive. Oh my goodness! America is huge and you don’t need to apply for a visa to go to another state. And you are free to move around anywhere and enjoy certain fundamental benefits that is available to all. When I first came to this country 22 years ago, I first lost my shit and then my mind when I found out that libraries are free! And anyone can checkout handfuls of books. I remember paying a monthly fee for a library card in India and can get only two books at a time. Standing in line outside American embassy and British council after school because you can’t fins Time magazine or Nat Geo elsewhere because they were expensive publication. Non vernaculars were not widely available. The Russian consulate had second Saturday chess matches and my mother would take me by bus and if I had a good play, I would get treated with ice cream. I rented a computer for a month when I found out what TCP/IP was and then had to get a phone connection for which the deposit was as much as our monthly rent. I would hazard a guess that most immigrants would call the above problems mentioned as an uniquely first world complaint. Poverty, lack of opportunities..poor nutrition? It’s all crazy sounding to most of us. I remember when I studied for my college exams under candle light because the power grid in my Indian city was unreliable. And it’s not like I am quoting a Monty Python skit. I won’t even get started about nutrition. It would literally sound like a MP skit. Student loans? My mother went into personal debt to put me through school and college. And she was a single mother. I can’t wrap my mind around what I see here in America. It is entirely unrelatable. It’s like..the country is a gazelle that has never been taught survival skills to be alive in the wild. And then...boom!!.. life happens. I hear you but I want to let you know that for majority of people in the world, this would sound utterly bizarre and they’d gladly swap places with you. No disrespect. Just a different perspective.

ElderKorihor 7y ago

That theory is hard to square with the dramatic rise over the past 10-20 years. I remember when folks were alarmed at Nickelsville popping up. Now that's way under the noise floor.

munificent 7y ago
> That theory is hard to square with the dramatic rise over the past 10-20 years. How so? That exactly lines up with the timeframe of the opioid crisis. Anecdotally, a large fraction of the RVs I see in my neighborhood are surrounded by needle caps and bike parts. The odds of those being drug-free cycling afficionados seem slim to me.
- mulmen 7y ago
  Unrelated but does anyone understand the stolen bicycle economy? I understand there is infinite supply but where is the demand?
  - munificent 7y ago
    This is something I wish I understood better too. Someone has to end up buying the parts for some reason other than drugs for it not to be a closed system. I read this article a while back: https://www.seattlemet.com/articles/2014/10/1/this-is-what-happens-to-your-bike-after-its-stolen-october-2014 https://www.seattlemet.com/articles/2014/10/1/this-is-what-h... It points out a shady bike shop and Craigslist sellers, but not much beyond that. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the economy doesn't function. Thieves sell bikes to others who think they'll be able to resell them or trade them for drugs, eventually find out they can't and trash them. On the other hand, I've seen RVs with dozens of bike frames leaning against them. I assume they wouldn't work at that scale if it wasn't worth it.
    - mulmen 7y ago
      This makes me wonder if anyone tried describing cryptocurrency to a bicycle thief.

50656E6973 7y ago

Is there a greater causation or correlation for mental illness and drug adddiction than poverty?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

dgzl 7y ago

I disagree with this, I think high cost of living has a lot to do with people's inability to take care of themselves. Drugs aren't necessarily the avenue people take to become homeless, but when you do become homeless your peers become people who generally do use drugs.

tathougies 7y ago
How much do you think rent needs to be so that the homeless can find housing? Because I can guarantee you that I've probably could find a place for that price, even in the bay area. In my experience, as someone who has spent some years in the bay area and who has always had under market rent, housing is quite cheap, most people just don't want it.
- dgzl 7y ago
  What do you mean they don't want it? Because there's something lacking?
  - tathougies 7y ago
    It's not the American ideal of a completely private, individual house/apartment. Living with roommates is seen as subpar or not a good choice for an adult.
    - dgzl 7y ago
      I see what you mean. I've been moving quite a bit last few years, and the biggest factor that's prevented me from moving into a shared living spaces is my physical belongings. It's difficult moving a small apartment worth of items into an already established home. Or otherwise, establish a place and find renters with a complimentary set of belongings. I suppose practicing minimalism would get facilitate this.
      - tathougies 7y ago
        Well if you want stuff, you have to pay to have it. We falsely think that acquiring things is a one-time cost. While true that owning something typically has a lower total cost of ownership, the relationship is not as cut and dry as often made out. For most people, renting certain things that they currently own would be a better use of resources.