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I believe a [citation needed] is required for the claim that US immigration policy is "internationally conventional". There is of course enormous variance in h
by elbasti 7y ago
I believe a [citation needed] is required for the claim that US immigration policy is "internationally conventional".
There is of course enormous variance in how countries handle immigration, but the ethical and conventional policy could be summarized as:
1. Border enforcement. Ie, try to prevent people from entering illegally
2. Tolerance for those who are illegally present
(2) Means that a person who emigrated illegally should be able to exist outside the shadows. That is, they should be able to get ID, work, drive, etc while their immigration case is decided, often indefinitely. As well, parents of children born-in country can apply for residence in the EU, for example.
This obviously makes an enormous amount of practical sense. All of the "problems" with illegal immigration ('job stealing', not paying taxes, etc) are exacerbated when people cannot legally work. Distinguishing between MS-13 members and hotel room cleaners is harder when the latter cannot integrate.
Lastly, there is an enormous moral cost to the "crackdown" immigration policy enacted by the US Government. Undocumented immigrants live in constant fear, poverty and exploitation. This is a real ethical and moral cost for an act which is, at the end of the day, pretty benign.
The US is a nation of laws, but the punishment (Can't complain when you're exploited! Can't sign a lease! Get deported to a country you left when you were two weeks old!) for illegal immigration is completely disproportionate to the crime.
- _iyig 7y agoMexico is deporting illegal migrants at the highest rate since 2006, and has deployed the military on their southern border: https://www.teledoce.com/telemundo/internacionales/mexico-aumento-en-33-las-deportaciones-de-migrantes-tras-el-pacto-alcanzado-con-donald-trump/ https://www.teledoce.com/telemundo/internacionales/mexico-au... The E.U. tightened their border control policies after a wave of terrorist attacks and upsurge in far-right political activity. We ran the experiment, and it turns out that's what happens when you let in millions of people with little job skills from cultures that broadly have, among other things, very regressive views on women's civil rights.
- elbasti 7y ago1) I think if you re-read my comment you'll notice that the issue with the US policy isn't loose borders, it's unethical treatment of people who make it _past_ the border. 2) Mexico's deportations are just as unethical as the US ones.
- username90 7y agoThe main issue with the US policy is that states doesn't follow it, leaving millions of undocumented immigrants in the country. The correct course of action is to document undocumented immigrants and then keep track of them while you decide if they are allowed to stay or not, not to try to hide them like many American states do.
- telltruth 7y ago> (2) Means that a person who emigrated illegally should be able to exist outside the shadows. This doesn’t make much sense to me. You are saying people who win the lottery of illegally getting in to a country without detection should be rewarded. People who figure out how to beat country’s systems of legal entry should be handed awards of permanent residency. Why? If citizens don’t want to punish illegal immigrants then they should just eliminate relevant laws. But if laws exist then it should be applied uniformly, equally and with due process to everyone.
- username90 7y ago> 2. Tolerance for those who are illegally present I don't think this is true in any other country than USA, and it is only true in USA due to States not being allowed to enact their own immigration laws. California is very tolerant of illegal immigrants since according to them they are not really illegal. In most countries it works like this: People arrive to a country, as soon as it is noticed that they are illegal they get contacted by authorities and they get to seek asylum etc. If they don't then they are not tolerated. If they do then during the asylum process they are not illegal any longer, and hence tolerated. As soon as a decision is made to deport them they are illegal if they stay and will not be tolerated no matter what they do.
- masonic 7y agoI don't think this is true in any other country than USA Are you unaware that a majority of refugee applicants in Sweden (for one example) are ultimately deported?
- username90 7y agoI am from Sweden, so yes I am aware how it works. Sweden doesn't tolerate undocumented immigrants. What happens is that people arrive, they get documented, then after a while they get either get deported or get allowed to stay. Having undocumented immigrants never makes sense ever in my opinion.
- tehlike 7y agoMost countries in eu (if not all) dont give birth-right citizenship. So i dont know if your arguments hold true. Usa is one of the few countries which does that.