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To clarify: there is no server in your browser. You just shoot data across a websocket through https://hostyoself.com/ws https://hostyoself.com/ws

by snek 7y ago

beamatronic 7y ago
My definition would be if it’s largely sitting around doing nothing until a request comes in, and its job is to answer and service those requests, then it’s a server.
anderspitman 7y ago
Does the fact that it runs through a proxy make it less of a server?
- boomlinde 7y ago
  The fact that it's not a server in your browser, but a client to a server on the backend makes it less of a server in your browser
  - mrbungie 7y ago
    No true Scotsman detected. By extension of that argument you could argue that no server is a true server: The fact that it's not a server in the _X_, but a client to a [_Y_ in [Database, DNS, Router, Caching Server, Search Server, REST API, etc]]_ on the _Z_ makes it less of a server in the _X_. Maybe we should stop using the word "server" and use "client graph", or just continue accepting that there are different layers in a system.
    - boomlinde 7y ago
      > By extension of that argument you could argue that no server is a true server No, it couldn’t. For example, I could say that nginx is a server on my computer, and it would be true because it’s running on my computer and is accepting connections from clients, regardless of whether it’s a client to some other service. My browser isn’t. Why stop using the word ”server”? Just stop watering it down and the meaning will be perfectly clear.
      - vidarh 7y ago
        Your confusion is because you assume the requests have to come in via individual sockets, but several distributed designs have servers connect to a frontend and wait for requests instead of having the frontend connect. Many servers are also clients of another service. E.g. Mongrel2 works that way. It has the advantage that your reverse proxy does not need configuration changes to know how many processes are available - it only knows which backend servers have connected and not time out. Some such designs will also explicitly have the server do an RPC in to the frontend proxy requesting a request; doing that then also has the advantage that the backends effectively rate-limit themselves by placing themselves in the ready queue when they have capacity, and all you need to know to see if you need more backend capacity is to monitor how deep the ready queue is.
  - wybiral 7y ago
    It's waiting for a request to serve content over a network. Sounds like a server, just using a different network configuration than you're used to, namely WebSocket listening in a browser's JS environment instead of raw TCP listening in a non-browser environment.
- clinta 7y ago
  The fact that it is not listening on an incoming network port makes it less of a server IMO. Proxies still proxy things back to another server that is listening for TCP connections, not to a client that has previously initiated a connection to the proxy.
  - fyrabanks 7y ago
    are pub-sub servers less of a server? also, a proxy server is itself a server.
    - clinta 7y ago
      A traditional proxy server is a server and a client. A server to the downstream clients, and a client to the backend servers. Pub-Sub depends on the specific implementation. But anything with an open network socket listening for incoming connections I'd call the server, and anything making outbound connections I'd call the client. In some implementations only the broker is the server. In others every node is a server as they're all listening for multicast discovery messages.
- kingludite 7y ago
  If its a server or not is less interesting than the server [like] features such a thing could give us. The most interesting one of which imho is: Who is responsible for my actions? (If its anyone besides me it sucks)
danellis 7y ago
To clarify: there absolutely is a server in your browser. You can see its implementation in the `socketMessageListener` function. The fact that you choose to call it "shooting" instead of "serving" does not change that.
rubyn00bie 7y ago
Isn't this pretty much a proxy, and like how nearly production environment on the web works? I don't see how this is any different than using Nginx or Apache in-front of your "server." IMHO, if the application is waiting for request to be initiated by a client, and then fulfills the request to the client, it's a server. The networking topology is really something totally different...

To clarify: there is no server in your browser. You just shoot data across a websocket through https://hostyoself.com/ws https://hostyoself.com/ws

by snek 7y ago

To clarify: there is no server in your browser. You just shoot data across a websocket through https://hostyoself.com/ws https://hostyoself.com/ws

beamatronic 7y ago

My definition would be if it’s largely sitting around doing nothing until a request comes in, and its job is to answer and service those requests, then it’s a server.

anderspitman 7y ago

Does the fact that it runs through a proxy make it less of a server?

boomlinde 7y ago
The fact that it's not a server in your browser, but a client to a server on the backend makes it less of a server in your browser
- mrbungie 7y ago
  No true Scotsman detected. By extension of that argument you could argue that no server is a true server: The fact that it's not a server in the _X_, but a client to a [_Y_ in [Database, DNS, Router, Caching Server, Search Server, REST API, etc]]_ on the _Z_ makes it less of a server in the _X_. Maybe we should stop using the word "server" and use "client graph", or just continue accepting that there are different layers in a system.
  - boomlinde 7y ago
    > By extension of that argument you could argue that no server is a true server No, it couldn’t. For example, I could say that nginx is a server on my computer, and it would be true because it’s running on my computer and is accepting connections from clients, regardless of whether it’s a client to some other service. My browser isn’t. Why stop using the word ”server”? Just stop watering it down and the meaning will be perfectly clear.
    - vidarh 7y ago
      Your confusion is because you assume the requests have to come in via individual sockets, but several distributed designs have servers connect to a frontend and wait for requests instead of having the frontend connect. Many servers are also clients of another service. E.g. Mongrel2 works that way. It has the advantage that your reverse proxy does not need configuration changes to know how many processes are available - it only knows which backend servers have connected and not time out. Some such designs will also explicitly have the server do an RPC in to the frontend proxy requesting a request; doing that then also has the advantage that the backends effectively rate-limit themselves by placing themselves in the ready queue when they have capacity, and all you need to know to see if you need more backend capacity is to monitor how deep the ready queue is.
- wybiral 7y ago
  It's waiting for a request to serve content over a network. Sounds like a server, just using a different network configuration than you're used to, namely WebSocket listening in a browser's JS environment instead of raw TCP listening in a non-browser environment.
clinta 7y ago
The fact that it is not listening on an incoming network port makes it less of a server IMO. Proxies still proxy things back to another server that is listening for TCP connections, not to a client that has previously initiated a connection to the proxy.
- fyrabanks 7y ago
  are pub-sub servers less of a server? also, a proxy server is itself a server.
  - clinta 7y ago
    A traditional proxy server is a server and a client. A server to the downstream clients, and a client to the backend servers. Pub-Sub depends on the specific implementation. But anything with an open network socket listening for incoming connections I'd call the server, and anything making outbound connections I'd call the client. In some implementations only the broker is the server. In others every node is a server as they're all listening for multicast discovery messages.
kingludite 7y ago
If its a server or not is less interesting than the server [like] features such a thing could give us. The most interesting one of which imho is: Who is responsible for my actions? (If its anyone besides me it sucks)

danellis 7y ago

To clarify: there absolutely is a server in your browser. You can see its implementation in the `socketMessageListener` function. The fact that you choose to call it "shooting" instead of "serving" does not change that.

rubyn00bie 7y ago

Isn't this pretty much a proxy, and like how nearly production environment on the web works? I don't see how this is any different than using Nginx or Apache in-front of your "server." IMHO, if the application is waiting for request to be initiated by a client, and then fulfills the request to the client, it's a server. The networking topology is really something totally different...