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That would be extremely counterintuitive given how pristine Scihub's image is among academia. It is much more likely people are "donating" access from within un

That would be extremely counterintuitive given how pristine Scihub's image is among academia. It is much more likely people are "donating" access from within university networks.

Mathnerd314 7y ago
When every talk, study, etc. discussing it (e.g. https://greenelab.github.io/scihub-manuscript/ https://greenelab.github.io/scihub-manuscript/) includes a statement like "Users of Sci-Hub do so at their own risk. This study is not an endorsement of using Sci-Hub.", I don't think it can be called pristine. And from articles like https://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2018/09/18/guest-post-think-sci-hub-is-just-downloading-pdfs-think-again/ https://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2018/09/18/guest-post-th... there seems to be some connection between Sci-Hub and the cyber underworld, although perhaps it's just the cyber thieves sending Sci-Hub papers and Sci-Hub isn't an active participant.
- calcifer 7y ago
  > "Users of Sci-Hub do so at their own risk. This study is not an endorsement of using Sci-Hub.", I don't think it can be called pristine. People being forced to cover their asses due to a broken copyright system does absolutely nothing to tarnish Sci-Hub's image. > articles like [...] Well, you'll have to excuse me if I don't take the allegations of a publishing industry mouthpiece like SSP seriously.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    >Well, you'll have to excuse me if I don't take the allegations of a publishing industry mouthpiece like SSP seriously. Just read some ezproxy mailing list posts then, there’s a plenty of edu sysadmins who have discussed this and don’t work for the publishing industry.
- viraptor 7y ago
  > seems to be some connection between Sci-Hub and the cyber underworld What do you mean "some connection"? Scihub is the best cyber underground has to offer. I love their "brazen scheme to gather and redistribute scholarly content".
ryanlol 7y ago
Meh, it’s better to buy sketchy credentials for a dollar or two than let people put themselves at risk by “donating”. Besides, I doubt sci-hub would extensively verify if the access they’re “donated” is stolen or not.
- calcifer 7y ago
  For most universities just being on the network grants access to journals, so no credentials are needed, stolen or otherwise.
  - penagwin 7y ago
    At both universities I've been to you had to login through the central thingy with your student info to access journals. (From Michigan)
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    I don’t know if they’d want to do that after what happened to Aaron Swartz
    - enriquto 7y ago
      > I don’t know if they’d want to do that after what happened to Aaron Swartz Of course, and even in more force and enthusiasm! Bullying does never work in the long term. And extreme bullying like the one Aaron suffered requires an extreme response.
      - ryanlol 7y ago
        So why not just respond by buying the credentials instead? Far less risky and easier. There are a ton of forums focused on trading these credentials because students from poorer countries need them.
        enriquto 7y ago
        When they burned down Lidice, people did not reply by being docile to the invaders. They joined the resistance.
dylz 7y ago
I don't believe it is particularly pristine. At least in my corner of academia, everyone generally knows that it is black market as hell but they need to get their work done... I would be somewhat unsurprised if they (probably not directly) (or people contributing logins to them) were buying hacked or compromised credentials for university VPNs, and culturally this seems to be kind of a norm in a few CIS countries - there are giant craigslist/ebay-like markets where people sell credentials like this, hacked game/google ads/twitch/google accounts "with warranty" for a dollar (the warranty is that they just give you another user/pass pair if the original owner resets it), etc., that are just considered normal to use -- they aren't on Tor or anything, just a regular site with regular payment processing, cards, PayPal, somehow for 99% stolen goods (crypto not required)
- nyolfen 7y ago
  there are an awful lot of academics and students that think sci-hub is not only useful but ideologically agreeable. i deeply doubt they would need to resort to hacked credentials.
  - dylz 7y ago
    To be clear, I don't particularly believe that the founder(s) of scihub are the ones purchasing hacked credentials nor do they really know or condone that they are. However I do expect that quite a lot of the ones in use for scraping are hacked credentials, maybe from people wanting to "help out" purchasing them as an easy to access method instead of putting their own graduation at risk, etc.
    - nyolfen 7y ago
      i suppose it's possible but it seems unlikely to me. i've never heard of anyone being disciplined or expelled for this, and in fact this link is the first time i've ever seen any indication that a publisher has tried taking active measures against people exporting content (as opposed to going after sci-hub itself)
      - 7y ago

That would be extremely counterintuitive given how pristine Scihub's image is among academia. It is much more likely people are "donating" access from within university networks.

Mathnerd314 7y ago

When every talk, study, etc. discussing it (e.g. https://greenelab.github.io/scihub-manuscript/ https://greenelab.github.io/scihub-manuscript/) includes a statement like "Users of Sci-Hub do so at their own risk. This study is not an endorsement of using Sci-Hub.", I don't think it can be called pristine. And from articles like https://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2018/09/18/guest-post-think-sci-hub-is-just-downloading-pdfs-think-again/ https://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2018/09/18/guest-post-th... there seems to be some connection between Sci-Hub and the cyber underworld, although perhaps it's just the cyber thieves sending Sci-Hub papers and Sci-Hub isn't an active participant.

calcifer 7y ago
> "Users of Sci-Hub do so at their own risk. This study is not an endorsement of using Sci-Hub.", I don't think it can be called pristine. People being forced to cover their asses due to a broken copyright system does absolutely nothing to tarnish Sci-Hub's image. > articles like [...] Well, you'll have to excuse me if I don't take the allegations of a publishing industry mouthpiece like SSP seriously.
- ryanlol 7y ago
  >Well, you'll have to excuse me if I don't take the allegations of a publishing industry mouthpiece like SSP seriously. Just read some ezproxy mailing list posts then, there’s a plenty of edu sysadmins who have discussed this and don’t work for the publishing industry.
viraptor 7y ago
> seems to be some connection between Sci-Hub and the cyber underworld What do you mean "some connection"? Scihub is the best cyber underground has to offer. I love their "brazen scheme to gather and redistribute scholarly content".

ryanlol 7y ago

Meh, it’s better to buy sketchy credentials for a dollar or two than let people put themselves at risk by “donating”. Besides, I doubt sci-hub would extensively verify if the access they’re “donated” is stolen or not.

calcifer 7y ago
For most universities just being on the network grants access to journals, so no credentials are needed, stolen or otherwise.
- penagwin 7y ago
  At both universities I've been to you had to login through the central thingy with your student info to access journals. (From Michigan)
- ryanlol 7y ago
  I don’t know if they’d want to do that after what happened to Aaron Swartz
  - enriquto 7y ago
    > I don’t know if they’d want to do that after what happened to Aaron Swartz Of course, and even in more force and enthusiasm! Bullying does never work in the long term. And extreme bullying like the one Aaron suffered requires an extreme response.
    - ryanlol 7y ago
      So why not just respond by buying the credentials instead? Far less risky and easier. There are a ton of forums focused on trading these credentials because students from poorer countries need them.
      - enriquto 7y ago
        When they burned down Lidice, people did not reply by being docile to the invaders. They joined the resistance.

dylz 7y ago

I don't believe it is particularly pristine. At least in my corner of academia, everyone generally knows that it is black market as hell but they need to get their work done... I would be somewhat unsurprised if they (probably not directly) (or people contributing logins to them) were buying hacked or compromised credentials for university VPNs, and culturally this seems to be kind of a norm in a few CIS countries - there are giant craigslist/ebay-like markets where people sell credentials like this, hacked game/google ads/twitch/google accounts "with warranty" for a dollar (the warranty is that they just give you another user/pass pair if the original owner resets it), etc., that are just considered normal to use -- they aren't on Tor or anything, just a regular site with regular payment processing, cards, PayPal, somehow for 99% stolen goods (crypto not required)

nyolfen 7y ago
there are an awful lot of academics and students that think sci-hub is not only useful but ideologically agreeable. i deeply doubt they would need to resort to hacked credentials.
- dylz 7y ago
  To be clear, I don't particularly believe that the founder(s) of scihub are the ones purchasing hacked credentials nor do they really know or condone that they are. However I do expect that quite a lot of the ones in use for scraping are hacked credentials, maybe from people wanting to "help out" purchasing them as an easy to access method instead of putting their own graduation at risk, etc.
  - nyolfen 7y ago
    i suppose it's possible but it seems unlikely to me. i've never heard of anyone being disciplined or expelled for this, and in fact this link is the first time i've ever seen any indication that a publisher has tried taking active measures against people exporting content (as opposed to going after sci-hub itself)
    - 7y ago