3 ms·

You clearly didn’t read the additional links they posted. They mentioned why they chose 10k (AIVAT), and it goes far beyond any of the variables you mentioned.

by csa 7y ago

You clearly didn’t read the additional links they posted. They mentioned why they chose 10k (AIVAT), and it goes far beyond any of the variables you mentioned. For any number of hands, my money is on the bot.

Traster 7y ago
That really doesn't address the point that was raised. It's not that the bot wins through luck and that 10k is too small a sample, it's that a good professional poker player isn't good over 10k hands, they're good over 5 years. Any good player will have their play analyzed and responded to, so there's a feedback loop there - any good player will have their play analyzed, exploited and will have to re-adjust their strategy to respond to exploitative play. The question is: How does the AI strategy adapt over time to players who know the hand history of the AI strategy. That's an extremely important part of being a top level player. To give you an example - if you watch Daniel Negreanu's vlog about his time at the WSOP he actively talks about changing his strategy in response to his analysis of different players' profiles. This is especially important in Sit & Go where at high stakes you'll have regular grinders who build up reputations - less so in tournaments where you're less likely to meet any given player.
- hdkrgr 7y ago
  This will be interesting to see. Brown and Sandholm's algorithm aims to play a Nash Equilibrium which by deifnition _cannot_ be exploited by a single opponent player as long as all players are playing the equilibrium strategy. As they note in the paper this gives you a strong optimality guarantee in the 2-player setting. It was unclear whether this would transfer to real-world winnings in the multi-player case, and while it looks like it does for now (for current strategy-profiles of human players) humans might be able to adapt to the strategy played by the bot. Given the fact that the bot wins against current human strategy-profiles in the n-player setting, it's likely (but not a sure thing) that human players will have to team-up against the bot to exploit it. That seems rather unlikely to me.

by csa 7y ago

Traster 7y ago

That really doesn't address the point that was raised. It's not that the bot wins through luck and that 10k is too small a sample, it's that a good professional poker player isn't good over 10k hands, they're good over 5 years. Any good player will have their play analyzed and responded to, so there's a feedback loop there - any good player will have their play analyzed, exploited and will have to re-adjust their strategy to respond to exploitative play. The question is: How does the AI strategy adapt over time to players who know the hand history of the AI strategy. That's an extremely important part of being a top level player. To give you an example - if you watch Daniel Negreanu's vlog about his time at the WSOP he actively talks about changing his strategy in response to his analysis of different players' profiles. This is especially important in Sit & Go where at high stakes you'll have regular grinders who build up reputations - less so in tournaments where you're less likely to meet any given player.

hdkrgr 7y ago
This will be interesting to see. Brown and Sandholm's algorithm aims to play a Nash Equilibrium which by deifnition _cannot_ be exploited by a single opponent player as long as all players are playing the equilibrium strategy. As they note in the paper this gives you a strong optimality guarantee in the 2-player setting. It was unclear whether this would transfer to real-world winnings in the multi-player case, and while it looks like it does for now (for current strategy-profiles of human players) humans might be able to adapt to the strategy played by the bot. Given the fact that the bot wins against current human strategy-profiles in the n-player setting, it's likely (but not a sure thing) that human players will have to team-up against the bot to exploit it. That seems rather unlikely to me.