3 ms·

Let's use your reasons, but look at it from the opposite side: 1) The largest contributor to the poor air quality in India is the practice of burning to clear f

Let's use your reasons, but look at it from the opposite side: 1) The largest contributor to the poor air quality in India is the practice of burning to clear fields, cook stoves that use wood, and the burning of cow dung [https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi-health https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels...]. One easy way to bring these people out of poverty is to provide them with good economic opportunities (like factory jobs!). High-tech factories would demand cleaner, more stable power (natural gas, nuclear instead of coal, wood, cow dung). 2) India's totally overpopulated, agreed. One way to decrease the population growth is to bring these people out of poverty. Every developed country has seen their birth rate decline once they move to the middle class. These guys need jobs, college, etc, and people will start having less kids!

rorykoehler 7y ago
Yes it is a timing issue. Can they do it before it's too late?
sandGorgon 7y ago
This is super accurate. Fyi - new Delhi has the most stringent vehicular regulations in India. All commercial vehicles in Delhi run on natural gas - both petrol and diesel are banned. India's pollution levels are not industrial or vehicular - they are agriculture waste burning. And they are timed with agricultural harvesting cycles. We have super fragmented farmlands who are really poor and this causes bad practices of disposal . We are a service based economy - but to be able to bring the bottom of the pyramid out of poverty, we need to accelerate manufacturing and bring modernisation into agriculture. Not to mention education.
- Bouncingsoul1 7y ago
  both petrol and diesel are banned. Do you have a source for this, I tried to look it up but it seems to only be for 15 years petrol and 10 years old diesel cars.
  - envolt 7y ago
    For commercial vehicles (e.g all Uber rides) petrol and diesel are banned. 15 and 10 year is for privately owned vehicles
- kshacker 7y ago
  Is that really true? Delhi has banned "registration" of such vehicles sure, but vehicles from nearby states (Haryana, Punjab, UP) and others are aplenty on the roads and allowed to fill petrol or diesel. Yes the ban has led to significant impact just pointing out that significant sources of air pollution remain.
  - lozf 7y ago
    I'd noticed that most cabs have out of state plates, and now I know why - thanks.
mayankkaizen 7y ago
The three reasons you mentioned are indeed the prevalent reasons but mostly in rural part of india. In cities like Delhi and Mumbai, none of these is major reason. Pollution from vehicles (especially diesel vehicles), crop waste burning (esp in areas around Delhi) and industrial pollution are the major reasons. These cities are too densed and yet too big. The sad thing is that there are hundreds of laws to prevent pollution but law enforcement is not a thing in India.
riffraff 7y ago
Notice birth rate in India is already close to 2 kids per woman, so not far from "rich countries" averages.
patrickaljord 7y ago
I remember reading a study that said this was not caused by poverty, at least not alone. It's also cultural. There are poorer areas in the world where they don't "burn to clear fields, cook stove with wood and burn cow dung" and also open defecation. At least that's what the study said, and that people doing these weren't all particularly poor. It would require a huge cultural shift and change of habits. Something that is really hard to do unfortunately.
brownbat 7y ago
Agreed, this echoes Rosling's points in videos and in Factfulness about how societies actually progress. India will have a special challenge from mosquitoes and diseases like dengue and malaria, but maybe the best approach to malaria will be turning mosquito-borne diseases into diseases of the rich. We probably can't fully appreciate the solutions a wealthy India (or wealthy Nigeria) would develop, applying new resources, the latest science, and metis to deal with the world's deadliest animal. [0] https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Factfulness# https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Factfulness# [1] https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/Most-Lethal-Animal-Mosquito-Week https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/Most-Lethal-Animal-Mosquit...
Ambele 7y ago
Yes, there's a saying that "if a couple has 10 kids in America and 1 dies, it's a tragedy. If a couple has 10 kids in India and 4 die, it's good odds." It's plausible to assume some couples might be hedging their bets however morbid that is. I'm an American that visited India for a few months and would like offer a different point of view. Buying condoms in India is still an embarrassing task since you have to stand within a line crammed full of people, look a shopkeeper in the eyes, and ask him or her to rummage around for whatever condom boxes he/she has in his/her rubbermaid containers. Lol, YC2020 could be condom vending machines in India that accept rupees >.>. Just about all of India's problems stem from the Tragedy of the Commons.

rorykoehler 7y ago

Yes it is a timing issue. Can they do it before it's too late?

sandGorgon 7y ago

This is super accurate. Fyi - new Delhi has the most stringent vehicular regulations in India. All commercial vehicles in Delhi run on natural gas - both petrol and diesel are banned. India's pollution levels are not industrial or vehicular - they are agriculture waste burning. And they are timed with agricultural harvesting cycles. We have super fragmented farmlands who are really poor and this causes bad practices of disposal . We are a service based economy - but to be able to bring the bottom of the pyramid out of poverty, we need to accelerate manufacturing and bring modernisation into agriculture. Not to mention education.

Bouncingsoul1 7y ago
both petrol and diesel are banned. Do you have a source for this, I tried to look it up but it seems to only be for 15 years petrol and 10 years old diesel cars.
- envolt 7y ago
  For commercial vehicles (e.g all Uber rides) petrol and diesel are banned. 15 and 10 year is for privately owned vehicles
kshacker 7y ago
Is that really true? Delhi has banned "registration" of such vehicles sure, but vehicles from nearby states (Haryana, Punjab, UP) and others are aplenty on the roads and allowed to fill petrol or diesel. Yes the ban has led to significant impact just pointing out that significant sources of air pollution remain.
- lozf 7y ago
  I'd noticed that most cabs have out of state plates, and now I know why - thanks.

mayankkaizen 7y ago

The three reasons you mentioned are indeed the prevalent reasons but mostly in rural part of india. In cities like Delhi and Mumbai, none of these is major reason. Pollution from vehicles (especially diesel vehicles), crop waste burning (esp in areas around Delhi) and industrial pollution are the major reasons. These cities are too densed and yet too big. The sad thing is that there are hundreds of laws to prevent pollution but law enforcement is not a thing in India.

riffraff 7y ago

Notice birth rate in India is already close to 2 kids per woman, so not far from "rich countries" averages.

patrickaljord 7y ago

I remember reading a study that said this was not caused by poverty, at least not alone. It's also cultural. There are poorer areas in the world where they don't "burn to clear fields, cook stove with wood and burn cow dung" and also open defecation. At least that's what the study said, and that people doing these weren't all particularly poor. It would require a huge cultural shift and change of habits. Something that is really hard to do unfortunately.

brownbat 7y ago

Agreed, this echoes Rosling's points in videos and in Factfulness about how societies actually progress. India will have a special challenge from mosquitoes and diseases like dengue and malaria, but maybe the best approach to malaria will be turning mosquito-borne diseases into diseases of the rich. We probably can't fully appreciate the solutions a wealthy India (or wealthy Nigeria) would develop, applying new resources, the latest science, and metis to deal with the world's deadliest animal. [0] https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Factfulness# https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Factfulness# [1] https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/Most-Lethal-Animal-Mosquito-Week https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/Most-Lethal-Animal-Mosquit...

Ambele 7y ago

Yes, there's a saying that "if a couple has 10 kids in America and 1 dies, it's a tragedy. If a couple has 10 kids in India and 4 die, it's good odds." It's plausible to assume some couples might be hedging their bets however morbid that is. I'm an American that visited India for a few months and would like offer a different point of view. Buying condoms in India is still an embarrassing task since you have to stand within a line crammed full of people, look a shopkeeper in the eyes, and ask him or her to rummage around for whatever condom boxes he/she has in his/her rubbermaid containers. Lol, YC2020 could be condom vending machines in India that accept rupees >.>. Just about all of India's problems stem from the Tragedy of the Commons.