4 ms·

We don't know if this is a security update or not. This is an article, about an article, about a blog post, about a random comment. Someone grabbed the update'

We don't know if this is a security update or not. This is an article, about an article, about a blog post, about a random comment. Someone grabbed the update's file change list, spotted files used by the Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP) and then said that because those files were updated that this security update "added telemetry." Problem is that those files previously exist on Windows 7 as part of CEIP and may require legitimate updates (inc. security). You still need to opt into the CEIP so that telemetrics are sent to Microsoft, and there's no proof that this update has changed that. I guess what I am saying is: There could be a story here, hypothetically, but this article lacks enough information to say that there is. This could be a legitimately security update to an unpopular part of the Windows 7 OS.

tinus_hn 7y ago
They’ve pulled these tricks so many times before they are not getting the benefit of the doubt from me.
- TimTheTinker 7y ago
  > benefit of the doubt OP's point was that ZDNet is stooping a bit low here by journalistic standards. In this case, it appears there's not enough evidence to publish a "question headline" -- much less question whether they deserve some benefit of a doubt. We all know MS and others have engaged in questionable behavior - but at least wait until there's something substantive before publishing.
  - fartcannon 7y ago
    No, publish now, and let Microsoft's PR machine reveal itself. We could learn so much.
    - darkcha0s 7y ago
      So you'd rather push fake news, rather than see if the report substantiates.
- phs318u 7y ago
  Are you referring to Microsoft or ZDnet?
altmind 7y ago
>>We don't know if this is a security update or not. What are you implying, go to the link in the article and find how it is described: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4507456/windows-7-update-kb4507456 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4507456/windows-7-u...
- dspillett 7y ago
  Because how something is described is always exactly what it is, that's why we are always told to judge books by their covers... That page doesn't state what security matters the update address, nor does the page it links to (directly, maybe the information is there with more digging, but if I'm given a link on the pretext that it shows something I expect it to show that thing without needing to dig). > What are you implying, I'm not the OP, but I think what is being implied is fairly obvious: that the patch exists purely as a way to get the telemetry stuff installed and had no real security addressing content. I very much doubt that is the case though, it is something that would not surprise me from the MS of old but they are at very least more clever these days and would not risk the resulting furory.
userbinator 7y ago
Problem is that those files previously exist on Windows 7 as part of CEIP Were they there from the beginning? If not, which update(s) first added them? I doubt they were, because I clearly remember all the telemetry being in the news starting with Win10 and plenty of people refusing to upgrade to 10 because of it. Even if it's a security update to CEIP, I don't think it should be offered to those who didn't install the original version of it.
ceph_ 7y ago
You're spreading baseless FUD about the article. They are telemetry files that previously non-security patches have attempted to add on multiple occasions[1]. $ cat 4507456.csv | grep -i telem Appraiser_telemetryrunlist.xml,Not applicable,"71,958",17-May-19,16:16,Not applicable,None,Not applicable Appraiser_telemetryrunlist.xml,Not applicable,"71,958",17-May-19,16:17,Not applicable,None,Not applicable File name,X86_microsoft-windows-a..de-compat-telemetry_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.24490_none_89e278f970fa1943.manifest,,,,,, File name,X86_microsoft-windows-a..ence-telemetry-sdbs_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.24490_none_0a5a1cf1c1a22732.manifest,,,,,, File name,Amd64_microsoft-windows-a..de-compat-telemetry_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.24490_none_e601147d29578a79.manifest,,,,,, File name,Amd64_microsoft-windows-a..ence-telemetry-sdbs_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.24490_none_6678b87579ff9868.manifest,,,,,, [1]: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3065380/mystery-solved-kb-3150513-is-another-windows-10-update-enabling-patch.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3065380/mystery-solved...
VvR-Ox 7y ago
Just stop defending this company please, they tried this a lot and look at how much telemetry they managed to get into windows and other products nowadays. I can't listen to this naive way of dealing with these companies anymore. Use it if you want and also use it for your business but don't complain afterwards that someone stole something important etc.
- iamnotacrook 7y ago
  It's not about "defending a company". That's the wrong way of looking at it. It's about HN not reporting on "..an article, about a blog post, about a random comment..." as if it's facts. Until otherwise demonstrated, this is a non-story. If it turns out to be true, I'll be the first person to say "yeah, same old same old" but no-one's put the work in yet.
  - blub 7y ago
    The article author tried to contact MS and checked themselves that the files are part of the update. Furthermore, the user Someone1234 has been defending telemetry on HN for years, often ignoring two important facts: * telemetry was invasive and non-transparent, but got toned down because of the backlash. They always refer to the current state and pretend that people are paranoid and exaggerate. * MS used many dark patterns when rolling this out, essentially getting into an arms race with the customers that wanted to disable telemetry.
    - VvR-Ox 7y ago
      Thank you very much, now I don't have to answer anymore. Have a good day :)
    - dang 7y ago
      Please don't cross into personal attack in comments here. I'm sure you can make your substantive points without that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

tinus_hn 7y ago

They’ve pulled these tricks so many times before they are not getting the benefit of the doubt from me.

TimTheTinker 7y ago
> benefit of the doubt OP's point was that ZDNet is stooping a bit low here by journalistic standards. In this case, it appears there's not enough evidence to publish a "question headline" -- much less question whether they deserve some benefit of a doubt. We all know MS and others have engaged in questionable behavior - but at least wait until there's something substantive before publishing.
- fartcannon 7y ago
  No, publish now, and let Microsoft's PR machine reveal itself. We could learn so much.
  - darkcha0s 7y ago
    So you'd rather push fake news, rather than see if the report substantiates.
phs318u 7y ago
Are you referring to Microsoft or ZDnet?

altmind 7y ago

>>We don't know if this is a security update or not. What are you implying, go to the link in the article and find how it is described: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4507456/windows-7-update-kb4507456 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4507456/windows-7-u...

dspillett 7y ago
Because how something is described is always exactly what it is, that's why we are always told to judge books by their covers... That page doesn't state what security matters the update address, nor does the page it links to (directly, maybe the information is there with more digging, but if I'm given a link on the pretext that it shows something I expect it to show that thing without needing to dig). > What are you implying, I'm not the OP, but I think what is being implied is fairly obvious: that the patch exists purely as a way to get the telemetry stuff installed and had no real security addressing content. I very much doubt that is the case though, it is something that would not surprise me from the MS of old but they are at very least more clever these days and would not risk the resulting furory.

userbinator 7y ago

Problem is that those files previously exist on Windows 7 as part of CEIP Were they there from the beginning? If not, which update(s) first added them? I doubt they were, because I clearly remember all the telemetry being in the news starting with Win10 and plenty of people refusing to upgrade to 10 because of it. Even if it's a security update to CEIP, I don't think it should be offered to those who didn't install the original version of it.

ceph_ 7y ago

You're spreading baseless FUD about the article. They are telemetry files that previously non-security patches have attempted to add on multiple occasions[1]. $ cat 4507456.csv | grep -i telem Appraiser_telemetryrunlist.xml,Not applicable,"71,958",17-May-19,16:16,Not applicable,None,Not applicable Appraiser_telemetryrunlist.xml,Not applicable,"71,958",17-May-19,16:17,Not applicable,None,Not applicable File name,X86_microsoft-windows-a..de-compat-telemetry_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.24490_none_89e278f970fa1943.manifest,,,,,, File name,X86_microsoft-windows-a..ence-telemetry-sdbs_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.24490_none_0a5a1cf1c1a22732.manifest,,,,,, File name,Amd64_microsoft-windows-a..de-compat-telemetry_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.24490_none_e601147d29578a79.manifest,,,,,, File name,Amd64_microsoft-windows-a..ence-telemetry-sdbs_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.24490_none_6678b87579ff9868.manifest,,,,,, [1]: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3065380/mystery-solved-kb-3150513-is-another-windows-10-update-enabling-patch.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3065380/mystery-solved...

VvR-Ox 7y ago

Just stop defending this company please, they tried this a lot and look at how much telemetry they managed to get into windows and other products nowadays. I can't listen to this naive way of dealing with these companies anymore. Use it if you want and also use it for your business but don't complain afterwards that someone stole something important etc.

iamnotacrook 7y ago
It's not about "defending a company". That's the wrong way of looking at it. It's about HN not reporting on "..an article, about a blog post, about a random comment..." as if it's facts. Until otherwise demonstrated, this is a non-story. If it turns out to be true, I'll be the first person to say "yeah, same old same old" but no-one's put the work in yet.
- blub 7y ago
  The article author tried to contact MS and checked themselves that the files are part of the update. Furthermore, the user Someone1234 has been defending telemetry on HN for years, often ignoring two important facts: * telemetry was invasive and non-transparent, but got toned down because of the backlash. They always refer to the current state and pretend that people are paranoid and exaggerate. * MS used many dark patterns when rolling this out, essentially getting into an arms race with the customers that wanted to disable telemetry.
  - VvR-Ox 7y ago
    Thank you very much, now I don't have to answer anymore. Have a good day :)
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't cross into personal attack in comments here. I'm sure you can make your substantive points without that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html