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> It is also much easier to hide all the bandwidth associated with capturing all that extra audio since it has access to a network that the user doesn't complet

> It is also much easier to hide all the bandwidth associated with capturing all that extra audio since it has access to a network that the user doesn't completely control. However, it is pretty hard to hide the large drain on the battery if your phone constantly streams audio to someone via cell network. And I'd say, since most people are on a volume limited data plan, streaming gigabytes of data will not go unnoticed - people will wonder why their budget is being eaten up so ridiculously fast. In contrast, smart speakers usually are connected to the power grid and WiFi, which effectively means unlimited bandwidth and power for eavesdropping purposes. The only way in which this might be noticed is if someone sniffs network traffic and wonders why this speaker sends so much encrypted data. But I'd argue that the probability for this case is much lower than the probability of raised eyebrows because of the aforementioned cell data plan being drained constantly.

newsbinator 7y ago
If the mobile network is in on it, one's only flag is the battery drain. Apple could add a "microphone actively/recently in use" icon to the top of the phone.
slg 7y ago
The whole premise of the original line of thinking is that corporations are lying to you and/or they are compromised by the government or some other malicious entity. All bets are off once that is accepted as a possibility. Who's to say that the bandwidth used by the compromised phone will show up on your account? Furthermore why should we trust the battery percentage displayed on the phone? If the phone is lying to you about the microphone being on, maybe it is lying to you about the current battery percentage or what specifically is draining your battery. The phone also doesn't need to constantly be listening and streaming audio 24/7. Phones generally have a lot more processing power available to them than smart speakers. Maybe some of the audio processing is done on the device. Maybe the phone is only recording and waits to process and upload the data once it is charging and the battery drain is easier to hide. There are countless ways to try to mask this type of activity.
maemilius 7y ago
People have to charge their phones eventually. The easy way to do this is to store the recordings locally and only transmit when the phone is already charging. If we're already considering government intervention, why wouldn't they just require that internet providers of all kinds _not_ meter data sent to them? Unless our hypothetical government agency _really_ needs real-time data, there are plenty of ways they can mask their activity in a way that users won't ever notice.
hyperman1 7y ago
Let's see. according to https://www.lifewire.com/megabytes-for-one-minute-conversations-3426705 https://www.lifewire.com/megabytes-for-one-minute-conversati... , VoIP takes around 240 kb/minute, which is about 10GB/month. Lowering quality and simply not recording when no one talks, should bring that seriously down, say 1GB/month. Which is a lot today,but prices are falling rapidly. If it's mandatory by law, implementing it in hardware would make sense, which will also lower the battery drain. I don't like what I'm saying here, but recording and sending everything by law seems technically viable on the near future to me.

newsbinator 7y ago

If the mobile network is in on it, one's only flag is the battery drain. Apple could add a "microphone actively/recently in use" icon to the top of the phone.

slg 7y ago

The whole premise of the original line of thinking is that corporations are lying to you and/or they are compromised by the government or some other malicious entity. All bets are off once that is accepted as a possibility. Who's to say that the bandwidth used by the compromised phone will show up on your account? Furthermore why should we trust the battery percentage displayed on the phone? If the phone is lying to you about the microphone being on, maybe it is lying to you about the current battery percentage or what specifically is draining your battery. The phone also doesn't need to constantly be listening and streaming audio 24/7. Phones generally have a lot more processing power available to them than smart speakers. Maybe some of the audio processing is done on the device. Maybe the phone is only recording and waits to process and upload the data once it is charging and the battery drain is easier to hide. There are countless ways to try to mask this type of activity.

maemilius 7y ago

People have to charge their phones eventually. The easy way to do this is to store the recordings locally and only transmit when the phone is already charging. If we're already considering government intervention, why wouldn't they just require that internet providers of all kinds _not_ meter data sent to them? Unless our hypothetical government agency _really_ needs real-time data, there are plenty of ways they can mask their activity in a way that users won't ever notice.

hyperman1 7y ago

Let's see. according to https://www.lifewire.com/megabytes-for-one-minute-conversations-3426705 https://www.lifewire.com/megabytes-for-one-minute-conversati... , VoIP takes around 240 kb/minute, which is about 10GB/month. Lowering quality and simply not recording when no one talks, should bring that seriously down, say 1GB/month. Which is a lot today,but prices are falling rapidly. If it's mandatory by law, implementing it in hardware would make sense, which will also lower the battery drain. I don't like what I'm saying here, but recording and sending everything by law seems technically viable on the near future to me.