5 ms·

The gym model doesn't work in the bay area because real estate is so expensive. No one wants to pay $300/m to be a member of a makerspace.

marcinzm 7y ago
And if real estate is cheap then you have a giant garage filled with equipment that can fill almost all your needs.
- KirinDave 7y ago
  I don't think so. Certainly even if I had a big garage I'd balk at buying a woodshop.
  - marcinzm 7y ago
    Chinese made machinery (or used machinery from craigslist) is rather inexpensive (and good enough for non professional use) and $100+/month membership fees will add up over time. You can get some nice equipment for $5k which would be less than your dues for 5 years.
    - KirinDave 7y ago
      I've actually helped run a woodshop for a school as part of volunteer work back before I had a kid. It's a huge amount of work. Even if we pretend the machines are cheap (they aren't), then we're still talking about setting up a space that's safe to work in, cleaning it, maintaining the machines, properly powering them (if you get more than a few industrial machines your power provider will want to charge you differently because they consume power differently). Even just a few desktop fabrication things are a lot of work to own and maintain. It's really, really nice to have a space you can go, do work, and then enjoy that without the cleanup and maintenance.
      - marcinzm 7y ago
        A basic table saw is $200 on Amazon, a miter saw is $200, drill press is $200, a planer is $500 but there's hand tools for that, etc. Low end but they'll work. Biggest expense would be dust filtration system if you don't want to vacuum constantly. There's probably more people with garage wood shops in the US than makers. You keep assuming that you need industrial machines that can be used 24/7 to do these things when in reality you don't. You can use hand tools even but those take more time. >I've actually helped run a woodshop for a school as part of volunteer work back before I had a kid. I'd call that a professional space since it's used most of the time rather than occasionally.
        KirinDave 7y ago
        > A basic table saw is $200 on Amazon, a miter saw is $200, drill press is $200, a planer is $500 but there's hand tools for that, etc. Low end but they'll work. Biggest expense would be dust filtration system if you don't want to vacuum constantly. There's probably more people with garage wood shops in the US than makers. There's people with little baby jigsaws and a circular saw. Folks with actual lathes, CNC routers that could handle hardwood, actual band saws or full sized table saws? Not so much. > You keep assuming that you need industrial machines that can be used 24/7 to do these things when in reality you don't. You can use hand tools even but those take more time. No, I don't. A school shop maybe runs the machines for a few hours every other day. It's still expensive. > I'd call that a professional space since it's used most of the time rather than occasionally. Okay, well I'd call "$200 on Amazon, a miter saw is $200, drill press is $200, a planer is $500" a professional budget to most people in America, so let's call it even?
        blacksmythe 7y ago
        "Table saws in use in the United States: Estimates range between 6 million and 10 million... in any particular year, about one table saw in 229 will be in an accident that sends someone to the emergency room." https://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/table-saw-injury-numbers-in-perspective/ https://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/table-saw-injury-...
- driverdan 7y ago
  Have you been to a makerspace? Most have, at a minimum, woodworking tools, metalworking tools, a laser cutter, and a CNC router. Very few people can justify buying all of those things for themselves. A high powered laser cutter alone is $10k+ for a decent Chinese model. A good professional model can run $30k+.
  - marcinzm 7y ago
    Sure, I go to one myself. Thing is that people rarely need all those things. The gym model works on 90% of members not actually using the space much. But in those cases they can just buy equipment themselves if they have space. Not equivalent and not all of it but good enough for their limited needs. Also, you can get a usable laser cutter for $500 if you are willing to put in the hours to update the shitty Chinese components. $3-6k gives you a decent 40-45w one (Glowforge, etc.). Won't cut beyond 1/4" but that covers a lot of projects.
  - mdorazio 7y ago
    Your numbers are off by a lot. I bought a surprisingly capable 80W laser cutter for $3k on eBay and a lightly used X-carve for $2k. Many people spend more than that on upgrades for their car. Additionally, if you need less capabilities, you can get a 3D printer + laser cutter + cnc mill combo for not too much.

marcinzm 7y ago

And if real estate is cheap then you have a giant garage filled with equipment that can fill almost all your needs.

KirinDave 7y ago
I don't think so. Certainly even if I had a big garage I'd balk at buying a woodshop.
- marcinzm 7y ago
  Chinese made machinery (or used machinery from craigslist) is rather inexpensive (and good enough for non professional use) and $100+/month membership fees will add up over time. You can get some nice equipment for $5k which would be less than your dues for 5 years.
  - KirinDave 7y ago
    I've actually helped run a woodshop for a school as part of volunteer work back before I had a kid. It's a huge amount of work. Even if we pretend the machines are cheap (they aren't), then we're still talking about setting up a space that's safe to work in, cleaning it, maintaining the machines, properly powering them (if you get more than a few industrial machines your power provider will want to charge you differently because they consume power differently). Even just a few desktop fabrication things are a lot of work to own and maintain. It's really, really nice to have a space you can go, do work, and then enjoy that without the cleanup and maintenance.
    - marcinzm 7y ago
      A basic table saw is $200 on Amazon, a miter saw is $200, drill press is $200, a planer is $500 but there's hand tools for that, etc. Low end but they'll work. Biggest expense would be dust filtration system if you don't want to vacuum constantly. There's probably more people with garage wood shops in the US than makers. You keep assuming that you need industrial machines that can be used 24/7 to do these things when in reality you don't. You can use hand tools even but those take more time. >I've actually helped run a woodshop for a school as part of volunteer work back before I had a kid. I'd call that a professional space since it's used most of the time rather than occasionally.
      - KirinDave 7y ago
        > A basic table saw is $200 on Amazon, a miter saw is $200, drill press is $200, a planer is $500 but there's hand tools for that, etc. Low end but they'll work. Biggest expense would be dust filtration system if you don't want to vacuum constantly. There's probably more people with garage wood shops in the US than makers. There's people with little baby jigsaws and a circular saw. Folks with actual lathes, CNC routers that could handle hardwood, actual band saws or full sized table saws? Not so much. > You keep assuming that you need industrial machines that can be used 24/7 to do these things when in reality you don't. You can use hand tools even but those take more time. No, I don't. A school shop maybe runs the machines for a few hours every other day. It's still expensive. > I'd call that a professional space since it's used most of the time rather than occasionally. Okay, well I'd call "$200 on Amazon, a miter saw is $200, drill press is $200, a planer is $500" a professional budget to most people in America, so let's call it even?
        blacksmythe 7y ago
        "Table saws in use in the United States: Estimates range between 6 million and 10 million... in any particular year, about one table saw in 229 will be in an accident that sends someone to the emergency room." https://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/table-saw-injury-numbers-in-perspective/ https://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/table-saw-injury-...
driverdan 7y ago
Have you been to a makerspace? Most have, at a minimum, woodworking tools, metalworking tools, a laser cutter, and a CNC router. Very few people can justify buying all of those things for themselves. A high powered laser cutter alone is $10k+ for a decent Chinese model. A good professional model can run $30k+.
- marcinzm 7y ago
  Sure, I go to one myself. Thing is that people rarely need all those things. The gym model works on 90% of members not actually using the space much. But in those cases they can just buy equipment themselves if they have space. Not equivalent and not all of it but good enough for their limited needs. Also, you can get a usable laser cutter for $500 if you are willing to put in the hours to update the shitty Chinese components. $3-6k gives you a decent 40-45w one (Glowforge, etc.). Won't cut beyond 1/4" but that covers a lot of projects.
- mdorazio 7y ago
  Your numbers are off by a lot. I bought a surprisingly capable 80W laser cutter for $3k on eBay and a lightly used X-carve for $2k. Many people spend more than that on upgrades for their car. Additionally, if you need less capabilities, you can get a 3D printer + laser cutter + cnc mill combo for not too much.