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The boat was very likely not an SA assault troop nor an SS secret police unit (both paramilitary branches of the Nazi party), but rather a normal Wehrmacht nava
by romaaeterna 7y ago
The boat was very likely not an SA assault troop nor an SS secret police unit (both paramilitary branches of the Nazi party), but rather a normal Wehrmacht naval unit. So a "German U-boat", instead of a "Nazi U-boat".
Someone will perhaps reply with their more encompassing definition of Nazis, etc., but I don't mean to engage with whatever discussion that generates. I only point out the standard terminology that you'll see in most books, etc.
EDIT: Looks like someone has changed the title from "Nazi U-boat" -- thanks!
- 24gttghh 7y agosorry to burst your bubble, but a U-boat in the Kriegsmarine under Nazi Germany makes it a Nazi U-boat. If there was a swastika on their flag, they're Nazis. A German U-Boat would more accurately describe those put to sea during WWI.
- tatersolid 7y agoA boat designed, built, and operated at the order of the Nazi government is a “Nazi boat”. Even if most of the crew weren’t party members. Similarly, many American military bases around the world are built and staffed by mostly locals. But this is done at the direction of the American government (usually with the incentives of payments to and defense of the local government). But we still call them “American bases” because the Americans exercise most of the control.
- dmurray 7y agoRight, we call them "American bases" rather than "Republican bases" or "Democrat bases" depending on which party is in power at the time. That's the point the GP is trying to make.
- tatersolid 7y agoOkay so this would be a “Third Reich boat”? Because the nation wasn’t really anything resembling “Germany” at that point.
- close04 7y agoThe country was officially called Germany (original "Deutsches Reich/Großdeutsches Reich") at that point. In English it was called "Nazi Germany" to represent Germany over the '33-'45 period but that sounds as accurate as calling US now "Republican USA" (insert ideology here). Nazism is an ideology and it was never an official part of the country's name. People use it to easily distinguish periods but it doesn't make the naming any more accurate. So I'd guess "German Army", "German Navy", "German Air Force" if you want to use translated names. Otherwise "Heer", "Kriegsmarine", "Luftwaffe" if you want the originals. Or generically "Wehrmacht". Nitpicking, I know, but there is some substance to the point.
- dmurray 7y agoIt was officially called the German Empire or Greater German Empire, and the usual adjective was "German". So normally this would be a "German boat". In the same way, for example, the HMS Belfast would be a "British ship" even if it was built outside Britain or some of its crew came from the rest of the British Empire.
- romaaeterna 7y agoWell, no. I made a point about the terminology that gets used today, and explicitly did not come in on either side of an abstract debate about whether that norm is appropriate or should be changed. Nor do I mean to. "Nazi soldiers", etc., was common during the war years and immediately afterwards, especially in ideologically charged material, but "German soldiers" took over by the 1950s, and has continued.
- mikeash 7y agoThat’s only because the US isn’t under the total control of a single party. If, say, the Democratic Party took over complete control such that it became almost synonymous with the nation, I’d expect “Democrat base” to become fairly common terminology.
- C1sc0cat 7y agoThey are actually Extraterritorial parts of the USA based on the UK experience
- chewz 7y agoThese Nazis had been peculiar species that had appeared in 1933 and suddenly dissapeared in 1945 without a trace. Of course no German or Austrian had ever sympathyzied with Nazis, ever. Just following orders.